Posts by JosephMalik

25

Jesus in the Passover - The Origins of the Memorial Meal

by AlphaOmega in

i am sorry about posting a large picture here.

but i've tried to do post it lots of time with smaller separate pictures and jwd kepps giving me an error!.

let's hope that this works.

JosephMalik

Santisimo,

Your welcome. It is nice to meet someone so enlightening on the subject.

Joseph

25

Jesus in the Passover - The Origins of the Memorial Meal

by AlphaOmega in

i am sorry about posting a large picture here.

but i've tried to do post it lots of time with smaller separate pictures and jwd kepps giving me an error!.

let's hope that this works.

JosephMalik

Are you saying that there was only one festival but the Jews separated it?

AlphaOmega,

They did not separate it. They simply renamed it for brevity.

Quote: From my understanding of the Bible and what you are saying, the festival was 7 evenings (14,15,16,17,18,19,20) 8 if you interpret that God commanded to eat until (and including) "the evening of the 21st". The first night they ate lamb. They had to burn what was left. Then for the remaining days ate bread.

Seven days that began in the evening. The first day began on the 14th but was called the 15th since this was only about 5 hours of it. The bulk of the 15th took place at night and into the next daylight time. So we have from the evening of the 14th to the end of the 21st, seven days of 24 hours duration each. This makes 8 dates but only 7 days if you plot it out. To identify a first evening like this the date of the day before would be used. This is perhaps the major reason so much confusion takes place. It is context, perspective, failure to recognize the fact that time moves forward not in reverse. And the word day does not also mean date every time. Furthermore this arrangement will on some years cause two consecutive Sabbath days to form making that great Sabbath 48 hours long as it was on that fateful year we are discussing.

Quote: So the Passover SEDER is within the Festival of Unleavened Bread.

Yes and there was also a day of preparation for the seventh day or Sabbath within this Festival. This is when the new grain was prepared to make the unleavened bread. This is why you will see:

De 16:8 Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.

Not that they did not eat unleavened bread on the seventh. The six days made up days using old grain, but on the day of preparation for the seventh day they used new grain as this Law was included in the wave harvest which began within Passover week. All rather fitting and descriptive of our Lord's resurrection don't you think since it also tied His 40 day ministry here on earth to Pentecost, the time when the faith was anointed to preach salvation to the world.

Joseph

25

Jesus in the Passover - The Origins of the Memorial Meal

by AlphaOmega in

i am sorry about posting a large picture here.

but i've tried to do post it lots of time with smaller separate pictures and jwd kepps giving me an error!.

let's hope that this works.

JosephMalik

I do however have a good book called "Jewish Family Celebrations" by Arlene Rossen Cardozo, which explains a lot about the merging of two festivals - The Pesah meal and the Festival of Unleavened Bread.

AlphaOmega,

Once again that book means nothing as there were not two festivals but only the one, the Festival of Unleavened Bread during which the Lamb was roasted which later came to be called Passover for short. And the Law states:

EX 12:15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel. 16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you. 17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

Many think that their salvation and Exodus only involved one day as the rest are nearly always ignored but that is not what actually happened. What this texts is saying is that it took seven days to bring Israel out from the land of Egypt. They were not safe until they crossed the Red Sea. Summed up the event is called day. The first and last day of this epoch were holy convocations (Sabbath days) and the Lamb was eaten at the beginning of the first one as shown in texts just prior to this. So Passover is Sabbath by Law. There is no way it can be pushed back to the day of Preparation for this Festival as nearly everyone does to avoid what is staring them in the face. Their theology is wrong and they will not correct it.

Joseph

25

Jesus in the Passover - The Origins of the Memorial Meal

by AlphaOmega in

i am sorry about posting a large picture here.

but i've tried to do post it lots of time with smaller separate pictures and jwd kepps giving me an error!.

let's hope that this works.

JosephMalik

AlphaOmega,

The festival of Unleavened bread is Passover. It was named after the bread not the Lamb and only came to be called Passover later. You have shown this clearly by the text you provided. The teaching that there were two days involved is not supported by any text since there were actually seven days involved not two. People do strange things I know, especially when they do not understand such things and today they stretch it out to eight days in some places. Proves nothing. It was never called the festival of wine, or the festival of the Lamb but was properly called the Festival of Unleavened bread or cakes as this was the sacred food of significance eaten during Passover. The Lamb was only involved in the very first meal and the eating of this Lamb took place on a Sabbath as such a Sabbath was forced to take place by Law with another Sabbath on the seventh day concluding Passover. So while you are providing minute detail, I saw only one day and Sedar not Sabbath associated with this meal, yet they are significant details as well. Our Lord could not have died the day after eating this meal according to scripture. Why? Because the next day by Law was still Sabbath and our Lord did not die on a Sabbath. And communion we know consists of unleavened bread and wine not the meat of a Lamb or its blood so the bread really is significant and was treated in a sacred and unusual way during Passover. This detail is therefore significant and I was hoping that you could shed more light on all this.

You said: The last possible solution recognizes that the "Passover" was a figure of speech that included all the week of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

Maybe last for some but according to scripture: Eze 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten. Pretty good support for something that is in last place?

Joseph

25

Jesus in the Passover - The Origins of the Memorial Meal

by AlphaOmega in

i am sorry about posting a large picture here.

but i've tried to do post it lots of time with smaller separate pictures and jwd kepps giving me an error!.

let's hope that this works.

JosephMalik

AlphaOmega,

What about the other Passover meals, especially the last one on the seventh day where the Unleavened bread was made from new grain? The meal described here only considers the first one after which our Lord was arrested. Yet we know that later after this meal was consumed by Jesus and His apostles: Joh 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover. What Passover meals were they concerned about?

Joseph

14

Jesus death and resurrection

by Sasha in

trying to get these dates straight.

ok. passover nissan 14, jesus had the passover supper and announced to his deciples he would be dying.

so, that was this past monday., the next day he was killed (correct?

JosephMalik

Leolaia,

The festival of Unfermented cakes and Passover are simply interchangeable terms and this is where the confusion begins. For example: Eze 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten. Passover is 7 days long and is the same observance as the Festival of Unfermented bread. It was not the meat but the Unfermented bread that make up the bulk of the holy observance, the sanctified food eaten during this 7 day Passover. The Lamb, the meat is critical only for that first meal which is killed and cooked on the 14th but consumed with the Unleavend bread at sundown when the date changes to the 15th. This meal is always a Sabbath regardless of when it occures. The next afternoon is still a Sabbath and our Lord did not die on a Sabbath. His death would take place nearly a week later when they prepared the Unfermented bread from new grain. This is because the 7 week Wave harvest begins from within Passover week and ties it to Pentecost. So nearly everything you may read is flawed and will not agree with the texts. Confusion runs rampant on this subject. As a consequence of such 7 day observances it is not uncommon for two Sabbath days to occur in succession making a 48 hour Sabbath or high day. There is another example in scripture as well but I do not remember where offhand. Young's Literal translation therefore translates Sabbaths plural while others simply explain this away as Jewish practice for the first day of the week and ignore it translating in the singular. So the observance ended with a Sabbath true, but also with Sabbaths as 48hours or a high or great Sabbath was involved in that fateful year.

Joseph

20

Need help with PC, damn thing is pain in the ass, please help

by needproof in

jw
friends

well, i decided to install a dvd writer in place of my old basic cd player.

piece of cake usually, but not on this computer.

all i did was take the old one out and put the new one in with exactly the same settings.

JosephMalik

Something else to check. Some IDE cables have a wire missing as well. You may see a small hole in the cable where it was cut out. Newer drives like EIDE need all the wires installed.

Joseph

10

Did non-Isrealites eat of the Passover meal?

by *jeremiah* in

some "aliens" or non-jews aligned themselves with the israelites,...right?

like,...moses,...he wasn't jewish,...right?

so did non-isrealites eat of the passover meal?

JosephMalik

During the Captivity, and after the Restoration, the name, however, was extended to all the Hebrew nation without distinction #Es 3:6,10 Da 3:8,12 Ezr 4:12 5:1,5

Joseph

16

THE BLOOD DOCTRINE CONFUSION!

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

for lurkers and those not yet aware of this, because we have new ones joining us every day.

in 1993 david koresh led more than eighty branch davidians to their deaths in waco, texas.

in 1978 some nine hundred followers perished in a mass suicide in jonestown, guyana, under the command of their cult leader, jim jones.

JosephMalik

James was not an apostle and did not have authority to originate doctrine for the faith. His letter was not taken as doctrine by Paul who paid no attention to it. He only accepted it as a peace offering, the aftermath of the intense argument that he had with this same James, Peter, John and the rest of the believers in Jerusalem. If it was a binding document then it would be binding on everyone, and yet by James own admission it was only intended for the Gentile believers and not Jewish ones. Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. His letter was intended only for them while James kept the LAW and all the ceremonies that went along with it. And Paul's crime was that he paid no attention to any of this and taught against it. If James was some sort of leader and could originate doctrine then we should all be shaving our heads and taking Nazarite vows the way James demanded of Paul. James was the PROBLEM not the solution to the problems that plagued Paul during his ministry.

Joseph

17

What was an Episkope in the 1st century Christian Congregation

by rassillon in

one that held that position, what were they responsible for?.

i understand that congregations were communal and shared resources.. was an episkope an overseer of spiritual matters or physical needs such as food and money, political structure?.

i guess i am asking an "overseer" of "what"?.

JosephMalik

Was an Episkope an overseer of Spiritual matters or physical needs such as food and money, political structure?

There was the Jewish custom of relying on the better educated, capable or informed among themselves for special services, But the Apostle Paul was the only Apostle to specifically appoint such men to counter the apostasy that was corrupting the faith in his territories. This came mainly from the Jews among them that were still keeping the Law and teaching this as a basis for salvation. However some of the Gentile believers were also builty of apostate teaching as documented in the letter they sent to him. 1Cor. 7:1 Such men like Timothy and the ones they appointed by laying on of hands were specifically appointed for this task. In this way a measure of Paul's authority as one of the 12 was passed on to them. There is no evidence that this would or could continue after such a physical contact with Paul or another of the apostles was no longer available. Today people making such appointments have no supernatural capabilities or authority as Paul did and as the ones he authorized had. All we have today is the custom once again with no real scriptural authorization as shown in the NT texts.

Joseph