JosephMalik

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Posts by JosephMalik

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25
Mat 27.52 bodies of holy ones.Sorry,bro.Franz but YOU'RE RIDICULING US
by aligot ripounsous in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
after jesus' death, mat.

27 : 52-53 reads : and the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, (and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.

let me first give cognac the credit for having raised this topic lately (i don't know what was written on jwd in the past on this subject).
JosephMalik

After Jesus' death, Mat. 27 : 52-53 reads : …And the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, (and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.
Aligot,
Were they alive? Did they say anything to anyone? Did they walk into the city or were they carried in or simply rolled in from the hills? Only Matthew picked this up. Why? Was it simply to prove that a severe earthquake took place that did this much damage to the tombs and bodies in them and the event did not need any further explanation? What else do we know about them? Nothing! What we do know about all this is that Jesus was dead and did not resurrect them. We know that God did not raise Jesus until the third day and God did not resurrect them. We do know that Jesus was: Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. And we also know that false prophets were around that would teach: 2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. So we should not look at this event as some sort of miracle that as one poster put it was:
This is actually one of the first expressions of a classical Christian doctrine, that of Jesus' descending to Hades and releasing the OT faithful from its power. It was consistently understood that way by Church Fathers as early as Ignatius.
Boy did they get it wrong just like they did many other doctrines still being taught today. Not that the restoring of a life would not take place later in time. But we are not talking about people that have been dead for many years. This only happened to recently deceased people not yet decayed. We do know that the apostles had the authority to raise the dead. Remember when Peter did is: Acts 9:40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up. 41 And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive. 42 And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord. But we have detailed explanation that this person lived and was not simply kicked out of a tomb. Like Paul also did: Ac 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. 10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him. 11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed. Such events were not considered the resurrection of the dead as the bodies in the tombs would be. That would be left for another time and is our hope just as it was said: Ac 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. This is a future event and we are all still waiting for it to take place.
Joseph
16
Some questions that I didnt find the answer as a JW Part 1
by tooktheredpill in
1. watchtower
2. bible
having been raised in the truth, i thought that i had all the answers in the watchtower publications.

but as i started really reading the bible without filters, a lot of stuff started to appear that made no sense to me.

1) genesis 2:2: and by the seventh day god came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made.. .
JosephMalik

Tooktheredpill.
Yes, this is a problem everywhere you look. Words like "all, God, Spirit, heaven" along with many texts are taken out of context all the time. And they do not want you to think for yourself because if you did, you would know they were lying to you just to control you, your time, and money. So what if there would be different views all over the place. We have that already. And what I found out was that if we really dig in the opposite would happen. Others were saying and writing the same things I was because they were getting their information from the same place all by themselves. So the WTS wild idea that this would cause confusion went poof just like that. It turns out that this would cause a revelation instead and many would benefit from it.
Joseph
16
Some questions that I didnt find the answer as a JW Part 1
by tooktheredpill in
1. watchtower
2. bible
having been raised in the truth, i thought that i had all the answers in the watchtower publications.

but as i started really reading the bible without filters, a lot of stuff started to appear that made no sense to me.

1) genesis 2:2: and by the seventh day god came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made.. .
JosephMalik
In the 7th day “God proceeded to rest”… If Jehovah and Jesus are 2 different entities, why Jehovah needed to “rest from all his work”, if everything was supposed to be created by Jesus, as the “master worker”? (See Pro.8:30)

Tooktheredpill,

If, such a little word but that is where it all goes wrong. Jesus did not create everything. We do not even know who was commissioned to create the animals and plants. There were other beings involved, we know that much. And at least one of them stuck their nose where it did not belong we learned in the garden. The only thing we really know from scripture is that Jesus created the human race that he later redeemed. So the problem is with the false doctrine you have been taught and not with the scriptures.

Joseph

Some questions that I didnt find the answer as a JW Part 1

by tooktheredpill in

having been raised in the truth, i thought that i had all the answers in the watchtower publications.

but as i started really reading the bible without filters, a lot of stuff started to appear that made no sense to me.

1) genesis 2:2: and by the seventh day god came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made.. .

JosephMalik

Who Raised Jesus when he died? Jehovah Act 5:30 Heb 13:20 and there are more

Mog,

I take it you meand Acts 13:30 here.

Ac 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:

Heb. 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

This is true, God did raise Jesus from the dead. But such scriptures do not deal with the dual natures that this Jesus now had at that time. They simply deal with the fact that such a resurrection of this Jesus did take place and God was responsible for it and in fact authorized it.

Mog then said: Who Raised Jesus when he died? the SPIRIT of him (lets get back to this to distinguish 'him') Romans 8:11 Who Raised Jesus when he died?

8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

This scripture is dealing with Jews still keeping the Law and teaches against the Law also called flesh that was still guiding their lives. It now teaches us of a new Spirit, the Spirit of God, that Spirit of adoption that is based upon the promises God made in times past and recorded in scripture. The Spirit of Him is still means God , nothing has changed. God raised Jesus from the dead as this verse is teaching. Him is God in this text and the Spirit is God’s will which did away with this Law.

Mog said: Jesus did John 2: 18-22 "breakdown this temple and i will raise it in 3 days...he was talking about the temple of his body" okay.. IF Jehovah raised Jesus, Jesus raised himself, then who raised Jesus? Jehovah and Jesus..NEXT if they both raised Jesus, and we know the SPIRIT of HIM would need to be added as Jehovah and Jesus, thus making it the HOLY SPIRIT, then..help me out here... tickle your brain on this one...

Tickle your brain for a change Mog and read it again. Who does it prophesy will raise the human body of Jesus? "I"? Does this mean Jesus? Yes! Jesus did NOT say I will restore my life from death. Why do you make such an assumption? Do you have proof somewhere that I missed? What John taught that Jesus meant by his statement made to the Jews before him was the "body" of Jesus. Yes, Jesus did raise the dead body executed by them with the assistance of Roman authorities. God raised Jesus from death as the scriptures teach and Jesus raised the body that was in the tomb by himself without God’s assistance. Did you know this? Can we show this somehow from scripture? Yes! The life of Jesus should not be confused with the Nature of Jesus. Simply ask, what kind of nature did this Jesus have before becoming human? Which kind of nature was offered for us? Were both natures involved in this resurrection? As I have already shown both natures were involved as His life now included both natures.

Joseph

Blood, from "The Atonement" by Leon Morris

by Doug Mason in

in previous threads related to blood, i have noted that on my web site, i make available the definitive work, the meaning of the word blood in scripture, by stibbs (at: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/the_meaning_of__blood_.pdf ) and also selected pages from the apostolic preaching of the cross by leon morris (at: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/apostolic_preaching_of_the_cross.pdf ).. in the preface to his later book the atonement: its meaning and significance, leon morris wrote:.

this book is written out of the conviction that the cross is at the heart of the christian way.

this is the way of salvation and it is the way of christian living.

JosephMalik

In reproducing the Preface to Morris's book, I provided a true and accurate record of what he wrote.

Doug,

I am sure you did, but I was pointing out that he did not grasp what Paul meant by cross. Perhaps we should read less of such books and more of scripture for our information.

Doug said:

I would have thought that baptism is a symbol of our statement of death to the old life, but that it is of no effect without the reality of the death and resurrection of Christ.

It is more than that. This is another reason that we should pay more attention to scripture. It replaced the Law as our means for entering the Kingdom. Without it we cannot obtain the reality and resurrection of Christ.

Doug said: Paul made it very clear that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the only "gospel". For example, at Romans 5:9, he made it very clear that is Christ’s death that the means of justification. "Since we have now been justified by his BLOOD, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!" (NIV)

Of course, and we can say this is central to Christianity not the instrument this Christ died on. We should put our emphasis in the right place. But do not forget who Paul was educating in Rome here. It was those Romans that were not doing this. We find this fight everywhere that Paul went. Speaking to them he said: 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: You see. And if information sources such at this book or WTS material distracts us from such reality, then it is time to put them down.

Joseph

Blood, from "The Atonement" by Leon Morris

by Doug Mason in

this book is written out of the conviction that the cross is at the heart of the christian way.

this is the way of salvation and it is the way of christian living.

JosephMalik

(Malik--he means the cross Paul boasted in (Gal.6:14), meaning what Jesus
accomplished on it, and belief in which is central to Christianity. He didn't
mean to deny the meaning of the other verses any more than Paul did.)

Glenstar,

I know you mean to smooth this over but there was a reason that I said what I did. And it would be nice if what you are saying was true but that still is not central to Christianity. It was important to Paul who said it since that was the mission given to him in mixed company with Jews and Gentiles. And it was the specific word used to show that such Gentiles did not need to comply with the Law. So in shifting this focus we miss this important distinction that Paul intended. And you know how the term is used in churches. It is an all embracing statement that gets sympathy, sounds intelligent and shifts the focus away from the sacrifice and resurrection of our Lord to the torture instrument on which it was performed. Yet its real purpose was intended to put an end to the Law. It makes not only the event less personal but the scriptures more difficult as it misses their true meaning and correct scriptural use. It is examples such as this that caused the faith to go astray and become divided.

Gal 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Here the cross of Christ is against those making a fair shew in the flesh. Their conduct of constraining others to be circumcised is a rejection of this cross and bad for them. It was not the cross but the Law that was central to them.

13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

And their joy was not in the cross of Christ but in the circumcised flesh of others they deceived.

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

But the mission to correct this mistake that such Christian Jews were making was given to Paul by Christ who was sent to this world for this purpose. Paul was crucified to this world for this mission so it becomes the cross of Paul as well.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

We should get away from such Law as it availeth nothing and be the new creature Christ intended us to be.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

That is a real rule and can also be called central to Christianity. Other than this you saw how Baptism was the true center of the Christian faith since without it we cannot avail ourselves of the sacrifice of our Lord. [cross excluded]. This is why we see more of a negative use of cross by Paul than a positive use.

Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ :

Joseph

P.S.

Perhaps I can say it this way. This cross, this instrument of violence ended the Law. That is what Paul is talking about.

Do you believe that the majority of JW's will be saved?

by JH in

if there is a god, do you think that the majority of jw's will be saved at armageddon?.

i'm not asking if they have the only true religion, i'm asking if you think they would be saved along with others who do god's will sufficiently to satisfy him.....

JosephMalik

If there is a God, do you think that the majority of JW's will be saved at Armageddon?

JH,

No! And there is good reason for this. Their doctrine is so bad and murderous that it excludes them from being called faithful. Most of it is Antichrist. So they will find themselves expelled as evil servants and will have to take their chances with the rest of the world or the Nations as they are called. This would not be so bad if they are still found to be sheep and decent human beings. Rules for them are much easier to pass. Then they would have an opportunity to learn the truth and wash their robes in the blood of Christ in the Kingdom. But a major feature of their doctrine that permeates every member is their attitude towards others. They mistreat others and would not qualify as a sheep. As our Lord warned us before hand: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: It does not matter if they are leaders or not, mislead or not. Judgment is based on our actions and not our affiliations. It is done on an individual basis. It will not go well for them.

Joseph

Blood, from "The Atonement" by Leon Morris

by Doug Mason in

this book is written out of the conviction that the cross is at the heart of the christian way.

this is the way of salvation and it is the way of christian living.

JosephMalik

The cross is central to Christianity. It is the new and living way into the very presence of God.

Doug Mason,

The new and living way into the very presence of God is not the cross. The old and living way into the very presence of God was the Law Covenant. The Law served this purpose for the Faith for thousands of years. Then in the days of John, Baptism took over this function to become the new and living way into the very presence of God. This is because of the lesser known fact that sin is what keeps us from this very presence of God. So we now have: Mr 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And instead of the cross as this author proclaims we have: Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Finally just to be sure what saves us and is central to Christianity we have: 1Pe 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also— not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, This is what he should have said and not publish an error that deviates for this truth and peddle the instrument of our Lord’s death for money.

Joseph

The book of Matthew, what is the importnce of it?

by bite me in

hi, just lil ole me with one question.

what is the importance of the book of matthew?

if this has already been discussed, please lead me to the thread so i can locate it.

JosephMalik

Concerning John the Baptist, he preached confession, repentance, and baptism for forgiveness of sins. He did not direct anyone to go to the Temple and offer animal sacrifices. Wouldn't this have been necessary under the Law?

hmike,

Baptism would now be the new way to enter the Kingdom as heirs. There are other ways for the Nations but not for the Faith. The Law would no longer serve this purpose for the faith under Law in the days of John. The statement was general and does not give a specific date but is still true. It is one of the things we do to be born again since baptism has facets we are not considering here. Not that baptism violated the Law at the time but it would replace it shortly and started to serve this purpose even before the Law ended. Forgiveness of our sins is another way of saying we qualify to enter the Kingdom. So things that do not seem to apply are actually what is really meant in a hidden way.

Joseph

The book of Matthew, what is the importnce of it?

by bite me in

hi, just lil ole me with one question.

what is the importance of the book of matthew?

if this has already been discussed, please lead me to the thread so i can locate it.

JosephMalik

To Joseph Malik: I can't see how you can infer from Matthew 11:13, "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John came," to the idea that the Law would come to an end (which would be the exact opposite of 5:17ff), unless you are reading Luke's very different wording ("The law and the prophets were in effect until John came") into it.

Narkissos,

Because that is what was being taught by the verses. Perhaps the entire context of it would clear this up. Matt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. 15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. The days of John the Baptist were the turning point for this Law as a means of access into this Kingdom. The days of John changed the Law by this violent overthrow of this older means of access. Now OT prophecies were in fulfillment to the very letter as shown since Elias had now come. The same is true later in Matthew when we look at both verses here: Matt. 5:.17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. And it was fulfilled as promised during the time of Elias shown to be John. Entry into this Kingdom would not be dependent upon this Law anymore. That is what the Law and its many features was about anyway during the time of its existence.

Can we be sure? You were showing how words can be interpreted differently by different people. But this is why we have so many views and so much false doctrine floating around. The scriptures had a greater theme running through them as its foundation and we should have stayed with it. This is what keeps our feet on the ground. The apostle Paul a one time Law keeper did not keep the Law after his conversion and almost lost his life because of it. Christian Jews tried to force him to do it. Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. It took a massive effort to finally catch the attention and support of Peter, James, Jude and John to correct this error. We see this everywhere in NT writings. No longer would the Law forgive sin. Not even what we may have thought were irrevocable parts of it. From now on it was forgiven by the divine nature we embrace. 1 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Peter continued and said: 1 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. This is the way it is done now. So I am sure.

Joseph