Posts by JosephMalik

33

Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY

by jwfacts in

i have finally finished an article outlining the deceptive way in which the watchtower presents its anti-trinitarian information.

any constructive criticism such as regarding errors that may have crept in is welcome.

since i cannot embed a page i hope entering the html code works, otherwise it can be read at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/trinity.htm.

JosephMalik

I just wonder how important doctrine is when it comes to Christian belief.

Pahpa,

Good question. We were not instructed to teach it anywhere were we? It is not a central theme for our ministry. And you are correct in saying that our deeds matter. This is a truth for everyone to take seriously, Christian or not, it is the basis for entry into the Kingdom we preach. Yet there are some very hard verses more general like the ones in Jude that frankly scare the pants off me if they should every be applied. The doctrine is therefore important as all doctrine intended for our enlightenment is. But it is also a distraction since preaching the Kingdom is our primary task and few even know what this Kingdom is, how it will function, where it will be, how anyone gains entry into it and what they will do in it.

Joseph

33

Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY

by jwfacts in

i have finally finished an article outlining the deceptive way in which the watchtower presents its anti-trinitarian information.

any constructive criticism such as regarding errors that may have crept in is welcome.

since i cannot embed a page i hope entering the html code works, otherwise it can be read at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/trinity.htm.

JosephMalik

JW facts,

It makes no difference if the WTS has been deceptive or not on the subject of the Trinity. It only matters if the Trinity is taught in scripture. It does matter the way words like Lord, God, Spirit are used and their real meaning or application which when studied do not support a Trinity. It is the kingdom message and not Trinitarianism that disciples are admonished to preach anyway. Lu 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. See Beyond Trinitarianism at http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

Joseph

24

Were You An Ignorant Jehovah's Witness?

by minimus in

jw
friends

many jws stay in for various reasons but the bottom line is that they know none of it is "the truth".

were you a true believer in spite of the facts?

did you ignorantly accept whatever "mother" said, just because "mother" said so?

JosephMalik

A good example were the "Studies in the Scriptures" series, especially "The Finished Mystery".

Gregor,

You know what? That old Studies In the Scriptures series was really good and perhaps their best work. At least the first three of four books of it. Not for their Biblical content mind you but for the writing style which was captivating. The reason for this is something I did not fully understand until Barbra Anderson explained who wrote them. Hopefully this secret will some day be revealed by her.

Joseph

21

"by their fruits"....wouldn't this mean their teachings as well???

by oompa in

i urge any lurkers, or newbies, or doubter here to read...and study the proclaimers book....and read many old articles in the watchtower.

anybody who can explian to me how we could be sooooo wrong about soooo many things...........you have a willing ear here.

gods holy spirit would not allow for teaching falsehoods....period!

JosephMalik

This is not the same as teaching things that are totally wrong!

Ooompa,

It is not simply a matter of degree as you claim. They were totally wrong. For example: Is there one rule for Christian Jews to follow and another rule for Gentile Christians to follow? No! And yet peoply like James and thousands more like him were doing exactly that. They even said to the Apostle Paul of all people: Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. One way of worship for Jews and another for Gentiles. This is totally wrong and it took many more years to correct.

Joseph

21

"by their fruits"....wouldn't this mean their teachings as well???

by oompa in

i urge any lurkers, or newbies, or doubter here to read...and study the proclaimers book....and read many old articles in the watchtower.

anybody who can explian to me how we could be sooooo wrong about soooo many things...........you have a willing ear here.

gods holy spirit would not allow for teaching falsehoods....period!

JosephMalik

.......try and find a Biblical example of where Gods chosen people taught a falsehood, and then got new light to change it.....

oompa,

I have shown that something like this did happen on this forum many times. Even the Apostles were involved in this kind of activity. But I have also shown how our Lord intervened to correct it. What then does this all mean to us. That we should not only be aware that this happens but it teaches us how we should deal with it in our day. This is not limited to the WT. It involves all of Christianity with their diverse doctrines and practices. The Apostles received new light (WT trade marked) when our Lord appointed Paul as His Apostle instead of Matthias which they chose for Him. Their procedure which seemed Biblical was wrong and this corrected their thinking. There are other such examples as well that took years to correct. We are thus obligated to both determine and to correct our thinking even if it seems to come from such so called authoritative sources. The so called Holy Spirit cannot be blamed for any of this. After all this has not been kept hidden from any of you. The many errors propagated by the WT serves as proof that they do not have what they call "truth" and cannot be trusted. Giving your time, money, and life to them is like following a foolish virgin trying to get into the Kingdom without oil for their lamps.

Joseph

20

1 Thessalonians 2:15: prejudice against the Jews?

by behemot in

1 thessalonians 2:15 tells about the jews that they "killed the lord jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not god, and are contrary to all men" (kjv; other versions translate "oppose everyone", "are hostile to all men", "oppose all mankind" etc.)..

doesn't this statement reflect an anti-semitic attitude on the part of the writer?

we shouldn't forget that such a view about the jews was commonplace among the pagans.

JosephMalik

Mary,

I am not taking sides mind you. Just relating what the scriptures taught the Faith was doing at the time. And from this we can determine what we should be doing. Rutherford did not understand scripture and neither does anyone else in the WT system. Their doctrine is so warped and evil that in many ways what they call Christendom does better. But you will not find any denomination with the truth as far as I know today. Some come pretty close but that same closed mindset exists in them. Few realize that our Lord will determine who belongs to Him and not us. That is what the faithful/evil slave is all about and that is why our Lord said: Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. And also there is: Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. And finally: 2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Exactly who such chosen ones are is something our Lord will reveal at His coming but the "truth" and not organization of some such affiliation will be a determining factor. They do not want you thinking in such terms since they cannot control you if you do. This is why I do not subscribe to any Church or doctrine but research such things that I can support for myself. It I prove to be a failure at such a time then it will be my own fault. This is the only way I can function in the midst of such confusion found everywhere in all literature.

Joseph

P.S. You know that today Christians debating with Christians such as we do here is very close to what Paul was doing in the Synagogues in his day where non-Christian and Christian Jews mixed together. We mix together with differing views as they did then and hash them out leaving the recipients or readers to make up their own minds.

JM

6

JWD night on the conference call Saturday August 16

by kool aid man06 in

in view of the current news concerning jwd we have set aside a special conference call.

the program will be devoted to the efforts and accomplishments of this most popular site.

many from this board will be coming on and giving us their "spin" on how jwd effected their lives.if you would like to come on the call and tell us what jwd has done for you, by all means be our guest.

JosephMalik

Well kool aid, I will try and make it for this one. Hope all that pesky interference can be controlled this time. And that internet connection that was suggested really is a good idea. Perhaps it can be worked out.

Joseph

20

1 Thessalonians 2:15: prejudice against the Jews?

by behemot in

1 thessalonians 2:15 tells about the jews that they "killed the lord jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not god, and are contrary to all men" (kjv; other versions translate "oppose everyone", "are hostile to all men", "oppose all mankind" etc.)..

doesn't this statement reflect an anti-semitic attitude on the part of the writer?

we shouldn't forget that such a view about the jews was commonplace among the pagans.

JosephMalik

The New Testament gives the idea that no more than 20 or 30 years after Jesus' death, that tension between Jews and Christians was so bad it could be cut with a knife, but this isn't really so. The newly formed Christians continued to preach in the Synogogues up until the destruction in 70CE. The split between the two groups did not happen all at once, but it happened gradually over then next 3 centuries. While some put the final parting of the way between Jews and Christians at the Council of Nicea in 325 CE, others put it as early as 70 CE.

Mary,

Of course it was both true and immediate. Not Jews and Christians but Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles is the right was to put it. Look what James did to Paul after the matter was supposedly settled some 14 years earlier; Acts 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. Wow and not something that happened over centuries. That famous letter was not intended for Jews to obey, Paul now learns. The issue was not settled as thought and years more of it would go on until James finally gave in and wrote his letter to such Jews which corrected his position over Law. But all this almost had Paul killed and by Christian Jews at that. The Roman army saved him. And you know that Synogogues did not go away simply because the Temple was destroyed. Paul continues to both mix in with and preach to them all along. Why is this not done today if the scriptures teach us that it can or should be done? No one has the talent for doing this anymore and the Jews are much different today about such things as well.

Joseph

20

1 Thessalonians 2:15: prejudice against the Jews?

by behemot in

1 thessalonians 2:15 tells about the jews that they "killed the lord jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not god, and are contrary to all men" (kjv; other versions translate "oppose everyone", "are hostile to all men", "oppose all mankind" etc.)..

doesn't this statement reflect an anti-semitic attitude on the part of the writer?

we shouldn't forget that such a view about the jews was commonplace among the pagans.

JosephMalik

The Listener,

Yes persecution came on them both from all sources. There are always those that jockey for control and persecution is one of the ways they do this. We must be both aware to avoid them and properly enlightened to help them whatever the circumstances permit. That not only James, but Peter for a time, John, as well as any other Apostles and thousands of Christian Jews (Acts 21:20) in Jerusalem and in Paul's territories were caught up in all this is revealed in scripture. They were keeping the Law (circumcision for short) for salvation and this is really the reason that our Lord had to go out of his own following to select someone like Paul to handle this for him. This is also why only Paul made appointments of overseers the way he did and authorized others for this purpose as well. Only an Apostle had such authority. This is all clearly revealed in scripture but kept hidden by major religions and scholars who want everything goody goody, uniform and you controlled. This is why Hebrews had to be written which brought James and many others back to the reality of what it meant to be born again. After both reading and listening to scripture over and over for several years back in the 70's and trying to make sense out of it this all came out and was offered to the WT. They gave me the boot for it as expected. Now it is easy to show not only successes but errors made by the Faith at the time that were well documented and yet few see since such texts are misapplied by most. What does this mean today? We should now know what to expect with so many denominations in existence and understand how to handle them as we serve our Lord's interests as disciples until He returns.

Joseph

20

1 Thessalonians 2:15: prejudice against the Jews?

by behemot in

1 thessalonians 2:15 tells about the jews that they "killed the lord jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not god, and are contrary to all men" (kjv; other versions translate "oppose everyone", "are hostile to all men", "oppose all mankind" etc.)..

doesn't this statement reflect an anti-semitic attitude on the part of the writer?

we shouldn't forget that such a view about the jews was commonplace among the pagans.

JosephMalik

Doesn't this statement reflect an anti-semitic attitude on the part of the writer?

Behemot,

What are you talking about? The writer was a Jew and the statement was true. And not only such Jews but Christian Jews, important Christian Jews like James were causing problems for the Gentiles Christians at the time. Paul would address them as well. You find this in nearly all his letters? So what is your point? Are we to conceal truth to avoid labels such as anti-semitic? Or are we to reveal such truth and admonish those engaged in such sinful conduct to repent?

Joseph