Posts by JosephMalik

16

Non-JW partaking of the emblems

by teel in

have you experienced such?

in my 10 years as a jw i never saw anyone partake, jw or otherwise.

the last annointed in my town died about 15 years ago or so.

JosephMalik

but that people should be left alone when performing ceremonies that are solemn to them,

TOH,

Being a Christian of some other denomination or cult then does not count in your way of thinking? It must not be an association that is solemn to such members then? That is why JW's spend so much time bothering them at their doors, spreading their literature and trying so hard to proselytize them? That is OK? They have to be JW Christians to get such special attention to their emotions and JW's have no problem in subjecting the doctrines of such others to criticism.

Joseph

16

Non-JW partaking of the emblems

by teel in

have you experienced such?

in my 10 years as a jw i never saw anyone partake, jw or otherwise.

the last annointed in my town died about 15 years ago or so.

JosephMalik

Jesus didn't say that you have to partake of the emblems at the JW memorial.

Teel,

It is not a JW memorial. It is a commandment of our Lord that the JW's are trying to observe like this one: Lu 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. All scriptures apply regardless of which denomination or cult is practicing it.

Joseph

16

Non-JW partaking of the emblems

by teel in

have you experienced such?

in my 10 years as a jw i never saw anyone partake, jw or otherwise.

the last annointed in my town died about 15 years ago or so.

JosephMalik

It is mocking what is the deep and sincere belief of others, and I do not think that is a thing to do.

TOH,

Nonsense. The sincere misguided belief of others is what needs correction not some assumption that we are mocking them. How do you do that? Is this done by following their error and supporting it like sheep or is it done by being obedient to the Christ that we are supposed to be serving as disciples? What is more important, someones emotions or truth? They do not care about your emotions when they shun you or abuse you in other ways. When they see that you do not drop dead, maybe some will snap out of their stupor.

Now they may retaliate or ignore you but that again is their error not yours. Was Jesus correct when he said: john 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you? Is this right? Then who are we to ignore this command or call it mocking? Who do we obey? There are no extenuating circumstances that change these words. For this same Jesus said: Mt 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. So do not partake at your own peril. If being disobedient to our Lord so as not to offend them suggested now as the right thing to do well then we deserve what we will get in the judgment.

Joseph

44

Is the partakers numbers out yet...

by 1914BS in

and if not then when?

?.

JosephMalik

the number of genuine anointed who partake directed by holy spirit clearly is not.

1914bs,

When I was a member I realized that there was no such thing as a genuine anointed who partook that was directed by holy spirit in the Watchtower organization. None period. And this conclusion was not difficult to arrive at. Why? Because anyone genuinely appointed by Holy Spirit would not support the way they go about this and would expose their false teachings. The very idea of looking at such so called numbers or even imagine that their could be some truth to them is a sick practice. Why? Because everyone should be partaking and the very idea that some that do partake and not tell the rest to do the same is not Christian of them. They do not understand scripture and could not be appointed by holy spirit.

Now you all know that the ones that do partake will do it on what they call Nisan 14. Well how could that be since unleavened bread was never eaten on the 14th. Unleavened bread was holy, blessed and abuse of it was punishable by their Law. It could only be eaten from the 15th to the 21st. Passover was named after it and such use was critical to the week of Passover. Can any of them read or understand such simple texts? If they could then they would know that the scriptures do not teach such a practice. So how could holy spirit be involved with anyone keeping such a practice? The whole thing is a scam and millions are buying it to their detriment. You will find more information on this at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/ch9notes.txt

Joseph

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

JosephMalik

Jonathan,

I just noticed this thread and did not bother to read all the way through it but the answer is simple. I discussed this at the end of my document in the section Thoughts of Pre-existence. http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/beytrin.htm I am sure you know about it since this was posted in another thread. But just in case you did not read it the answers to this question are there.

Joseph

124

Lets Debate the Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come on everyone, let us reason on the trinity doctrine using the bible!.

you know there has to be at least 3 big long trinity threads on here per month... so i figured i'd go ahead and start one for november.. the bible says that there is only one true god who is god by nature, the only god who deserves our worship and prayer.

jesus taught that his father is god.

JosephMalik

designs,

Yes, pretty much the way things developed in an attempt to control people the way the WT does. If it is something that they cannot really grasp well then all the better. Confusion works in their favor. Take Mohamed for example. He takes information from the OT about Abraham, adds in some things about Jesus from the NT, fills in the rest with thoughts of his own. The result was that millions of people believe him as if it was truth. Now such followers do all that they can to kill the Jews responsible for this OT that were spoken of as the seed of Abraham and any offshoot of the Jewish faith like Christians in NT texts that resulted from them. Hate, that is what really comes from such thinking yet they take it as salvation. Stamp them out as infidels they cry happily. This is simply more of that but embedded in the faith itself.

Joseph

124

Lets Debate the Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come on everyone, let us reason on the trinity doctrine using the bible!.

you know there has to be at least 3 big long trinity threads on here per month... so i figured i'd go ahead and start one for november.. the bible says that there is only one true god who is god by nature, the only god who deserves our worship and prayer.

jesus taught that his father is god.

JosephMalik

Is the nature of God revealed or concealed by this concept that all three Gods when taken together are really one God?

Nowhere does the doctrine of the Trinity teach that there are three Gods! The Trinity is not tritheism. There is only one God Almighty, the same God of the Old Testament.

Jonathan,

What I said above is correct. This is a simple example of the confusion and idiocy that permeates this doctrine. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but now by magic (its a mystery you know) these three persons are identified as one God. Yet each one is called God in its own right. Sure you deny this and call this observation tritheism, call it anything you like, but that is what trinitarianism is. The Old Testament does not say that anywhere. Jews did not teach it. Jesus did not teach it. It is not a secret or mystery that came along after the Apostles all died and Christianity fell away. So we get this pretense from trinitarians that all these persons apply to the one God of the old testament and we are supposed to believe it. The God Almighty of the old Testament has only one name not three and stands alone.

Of course Trinitarians claim they do not teach tritheism. They can deny this all they want. Now in the real scriptural world using the term God, the word God for others that are not the Supreme Being be they human or otherwise does not make them the God of the Old Testament. This is also proper use of the expression God and Jews were not confused by such use. It was used that way in their text and I demonstrated how our Lord used it in his defense. Now everyone was not up on theology by then and our Lord had to correct them but this is truth and we now see our Lord teaching us that this is the real truth of this matter.

Joseph

P.S. I am not concerned with JW teachings since they make numerous errors in their material. Such comments do not apply to me.

124

Lets Debate the Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come on everyone, let us reason on the trinity doctrine using the bible!.

you know there has to be at least 3 big long trinity threads on here per month... so i figured i'd go ahead and start one for november.. the bible says that there is only one true god who is god by nature, the only god who deserves our worship and prayer.

jesus taught that his father is god.

JosephMalik

Jonathan dough,

I know what you think. This does not concern me. I am only concerned as to what our Lord will think when he returns. In response to your research I offer what I have learned at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/beytrin.htm Anyone interested can make up their own minds or offer additional comments not made by either of us.

Joseph

124

Lets Debate the Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come on everyone, let us reason on the trinity doctrine using the bible!.

you know there has to be at least 3 big long trinity threads on here per month... so i figured i'd go ahead and start one for november.. the bible says that there is only one true god who is god by nature, the only god who deserves our worship and prayer.

jesus taught that his father is god.

JosephMalik

You really should, Joseph. Until you understand it you will never get to where you think you are going. It is not just an idea. It is the very definition of God.

Jonathan dough,

I disagree with your views Jonathan. There is no such thing as a Holy Trinity in scripture. Our Lord did not teach it and neither should we. The Trinity is a doctrine born of compromise with the world and ignorance of Hebrew words by a corrupt government many years ago. Millions believe it because that is what has come down to us apart from scripture by such men. It separates us, is harmful to the faith and the differences will be visible in the documentation we offer here. That is where this is destined to stand until our Lord returns. I do not attempt to define God as you do and the best that I can do is to comprehend Him by the creation. Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: In this simple verse I place my faith, life and trust.

Joseph

124

Lets Debate the Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come on everyone, let us reason on the trinity doctrine using the bible!.

you know there has to be at least 3 big long trinity threads on here per month... so i figured i'd go ahead and start one for november.. the bible says that there is only one true god who is god by nature, the only god who deserves our worship and prayer.

jesus taught that his father is god.

JosephMalik

I don't think we disagree, but one can't separate logic from Scripture. And in another post: Are the basic ideas of immanent Trinity and Economic Trinity too difficult for people to grasp?

Jonathan dough,

We do disagree as anyone considering our documents will grasp. I found no need for ideas such as immanent Trinity and Economic Trinity. No doubt then that I took a different approach. But those that look further into this subject will see all this for themselves. So it may turn out well for the faith that so much thought has become available to those seeking the truth. http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/beytrin.htm

Joseph