JosephMalik

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Posts by JosephMalik

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  42

  YK....

  by VioletAnai in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  yer not doing too badly there my friend.

  i was a little perplexed as to answers, but you seem to be handling it quite well.. just some encouragement for you to please keep it up.

  we all need to be reminded of both sides of the story.

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  JosephMalik

  dungbeetle,

  She may not be on YK's side like you think. Encourage him to participate and he will hang himself. That could very well be the point of her comment but this flame war is too tempting for her to pass up. The real point is to let it flow, let everone see both sides and thus gain in knowledge and perhaps heal their wounds. After all many are still dependent on the WT for salvation and bound to them emotionally. But here they are learning things they never imagined could be truth. Such discussions can break that bond and let them get on with their lives and fulfill the dedication they made with all sincerity when they decided to embrace Christ as their Saviour. You are doing a good work and it is appreciated by all. Stay focused on the material and not on personalities, but kick butt if you must. After all they do deserve it.

  Joseph

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 25 June 2002 8:13:23
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  44

  MORE ANSWERS TO 65 QUESTIONS: 11-21

  by You Know in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  11. since the wts claims "apostolic succession", can it trace its roots all the way back to christ (mt 16:18)?

  if so, who was it that "passed the torch of god's spirit" to c. t. russell when he founded the organization?

  what was the name of this individual or individuals?.

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  JosephMalik

  Way to go Cygnus. Great response.

  Joseph
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  47

  Why I Stopped Apologising For The WTS

  by NewWay in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  why i stopped apologising for the watchtower society - part 1. .

  in response to requests for information on why i stopped being an apologist for the organisation, i have decided to write the following article.

  what is written is not meant to attack the beliefs of jws, but rather to show why i personally came to the conclusion that i could no longer support the organisation.

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  JosephMalik

  New Way,

  Read both parts of your story. Looking forward to the rest. Welcome to the faith. Our Lord has set you free.

  Joseph
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  52

  65 QUESTIONS---FIRST 10 ANSWERS

  by You Know in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  with that in mind, then, we can better appreciate what jesus was referring to when he spoke about the temple of his body.

  thats because they are persons, whereas the holy spirit is a force that is merely frequently referred to as if it were a person.

  5. the wts claims that ezekial's prophecy of the jews returning to their land is fulfilled in their organization.

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  JosephMalik

  LOL. Another bald-faced lie. What are you trying to pull here? Jesus didn't say that Peter was a son of the Devil.

  You Know,

  You heard me YK. You cannot stand it can you? Jesus did not just call him a son of the Devil, but Satan himself and an offence to Him. Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

  You cannot support Watchtower doctrine because it is wrong. It has always been wrong since the Watchtower never had the truth as they claim. All you can do now is run a bluff and pretend you are finding something wrong with my posts. Joseph
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  44

  MORE ANSWERS TO 65 QUESTIONS: 11-21

  by You Know in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  11. since the wts claims "apostolic succession", can it trace its roots all the way back to christ (mt 16:18)?

  if so, who was it that "passed the torch of god's spirit" to c. t. russell when he founded the organization?

  what was the name of this individual or individuals?.

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  JosephMalik

  20. If Christ will not have a visible return to earth, then how will he be seen by "ALL the tribes of the earth" (Mt 24:30), and by "EVERY eye" (Rev 1:7) when he returns? How can Christ "APPEAR" a second time (Heb 9:28) if he will not have a visible return to earth?

  YK said: You neglected to quote the entire verse at Matthew 24:30, the first part of which reads: "Then the SIGN of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation." So, it is some sort of miraculous manifestation of Christ's presence, a sign, that the nations will be forced to "see," and not the literal form of the Son of man.

  YK,

  Sure it does. The Sign of the Son of Man involves many disturbing things causing such grief but among them will be included the literal form of this same son of man appearing as promised in scripture, notice:

  Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

  And this going into heaven was in a physical human form visible to His disciples and verified by the men in white robes whos information cannot be challenged by you or the Watchtower.

  YK said: Such a thing is not possible anyway. If you recall, Paul had a close encounter with the glorified Christ, the only human ever to do so I might add, but the point is, that Paul was blinded from Christ's glory for several days. That gives us some idea of the glory of the Son of man and why it is that the nations will not literally see him.

  So what? Our Lord did not appear in human form to Paul because such a return in human form was reserved for His second coming which we are discussing here. Did you forget our discussion on this forum regarding the first 10 questions that our Lord now has two natures and can use whichever one He chooses? This personal appearance to Paul for the purpose of selecting him to be the twelfth apostle was appropriate and prevented anyone from coming to such false conclusions. The Kingdom will be here. All resurrected or changed mankind will live here. Christ will return here to rule and everyone will see Him literally as promised.

  Joseph
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  52

  65 QUESTIONS---FIRST 10 ANSWERS

  by You Know in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  with that in mind, then, we can better appreciate what jesus was referring to when he spoke about the temple of his body.

  thats because they are persons, whereas the holy spirit is a force that is merely frequently referred to as if it were a person.

  5. the wts claims that ezekial's prophecy of the jews returning to their land is fulfilled in their organization.

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  JosephMalik

  More Watchtower bull. Christ died for the whole world not just His followers. There is no reference to anointed in the text whatsoever. This is a Kingdom prophecy, part of a series of them going way back to the 24 th chapter that deal with all mankind. Have you never read: YK said: I didn't say Christ didn't die for all mankind. You are just making up another ficiton and a phoney strawman. You Know, No straw man here just truth You Know. This is clearly establishing the context for the text, background information for the setting involved. Once again nothing is said about anointed in the text, nor is anything said about spiritual brothers. You are the one that has provided no evidence whatever and have attempted to shift the focus away from such truth. So everyone who ever lived is His brother. YK said: That is a bald faced lie. Jesus said of the Jews in his day that they were from their father the Devil. Those who are sons of Jehovah are not brothers of those who have the Devil as their father. Jesus' brothers are those sons of God who share Christ's anointing. / You Know

  So what? He said the same of Peter and is Peter His brother? Stupid Watchtower reasoning to say the least. Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

  What you describe as specific context in some texts from which their is repentance does not alter the general context given in the text we are discussing here in Matt. 25. And the text does not accept everyone does it? Some are separated as Goats and rejected. So there, you have no basis for even saying such a thing. The Watchtower is stupid. Has no idea whatsoever as to what the scriptures teach, and has deluded millions with nothing more that evil teachings unfit for the faith. They do not even know when Jesus died or how long he was kept in Roman custody during Passover. They have never taught the Good News of the Kingdom as they claim and do not even know what it is. They have killed thousands with their evil doctrines and none of them has gone to heaven when they die as they claim. You all have blood on your hands, the blood of the innocent deluded by you and your organization.

  Joseph

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 24 June 2002 12:8:32
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  52

  65 QUESTIONS---FIRST 10 ANSWERS

  by You Know in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  with that in mind, then, we can better appreciate what jesus was referring to when he spoke about the temple of his body.

  thats because they are persons, whereas the holy spirit is a force that is merely frequently referred to as if it were a person.

  5. the wts claims that ezekial's prophecy of the jews returning to their land is fulfilled in their organization.

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  JosephMalik

  Where are the anointed ones You Know? I do not see any.

  YK said: That's because you are blind. Jesus' anointed ones are still on the earth at the time that all nations are gathered. They are symbolized by those whom Jesus described as his brothers in the illustration.

  You Know,

  More Watchtower bull. Christ died for the whole world not just His followers. There is no reference to anointed in the text whatsoever. This is a Kingdom prophecy, part of a series of them going way back to the 24 th chapter that deal with all mankind. Have you never read:

  1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

  So everyone who ever lived is His brother. He has a special attachment for His dedicated disciples but this is not what the text is talking about. It simply deals with our humanity and what we are as human beings without regard to religious affiliation or doctrinal beliefs. This is true of everyone dedicated or not. The expression spiritual brothers DOES NOT appear in the text. You attempt to alter it again. You have no basis for such application. We are not talking about Armageddon here. We are talking about how our Lord goes about with the selection and resurrection into the Kingdom of all mankind. In other words, who gets in and who does not among all the Nations that ever existed. This is what Christ does as King in this Kingdom when He arrives.

  Did you make up this alteration of the text yourself or did you let the Watchtower do it for you?

  YK said: I haven't altered anything. What do you suppose I changed?

  You restricted the text to dedicated (anointed) disciples but the scriptures are talking about the Nations gathered before Him and such dedicated disciples are not counted as of the Nations. They are counted as of the Faith, the body of Christ and not part of the world. But if they are of the Nations and of the world, where is this stated in scripture?

  1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

  Makes no difference if they still exist or have passed into history. All nations means exactly what it says, taking in all mankind from the very beginning of man until this time. After all this is the time for the resurrection and Nations with sheep are found everywhere in time, not just in our present time.

  YK said: That's total nonsense. The nations that are brought to judgment are not resurrected. Nowhere does it say that. You are merely making that up. The nations that Jesus is talking about are those same nations that "beat themselves in lamentation" when they are judged adversely by Christ during his revelation. Those nations are judged by how they treat the brothers of Christ, whom, as Paul noted are ambassadors substituting for Christ.

  You just read where it said that. We are now well past that point you are describing. Here is where you are trying to apply the text.

  24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

  Well we are well past that gathering of the elect in Matthew chapter 25. No longer do we see tribes mourn, but we see but all Nations gathered. We see who is being picked for the Kingdom from them ALL to join such elect already gathered. And this selection is made based upon how such individuals in all the Nations treated each other.

  YK said: Nations and peoples that lived before Christ obviously had no possibility of doing anything, good or bad, to the brothers of Christ, and hence, since that is the case, the nations that existed before Christ have no basis for this sort of judgment.

  They sure did according to our Lord and a lot of them from far away places long before Christ came. They all had such an opportunity since no brothers in Christ are involved. Will Abraham be in heaven? Then we are talking about men not even in the faith but selected non-the-less as shown by the verses in Matt. 25 that we are discussing.

  Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. [God Luke]

  Luke 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

  And the fact that we go back in time for such judgment is a truth clearly established by our Lord and is beyond questioning:

  Matthew 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

  So history will be rolled back. All Nations are involved including such ancient ones. And there are more examples such as this.

  :22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

  So you have no basis for restricting the texts when our Lord clearly taught this would be the case as shown here. The Watcthwer does not even know that the Kingdom is restricted to earth or how it will be filled with immortal human beings. They never have taught such good news to the world.

  Joseph

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 23 June 2002 15:3:31
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  52

  65 QUESTIONS---FIRST 10 ANSWERS

  by You Know in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  with that in mind, then, we can better appreciate what jesus was referring to when he spoke about the temple of his body.

  thats because they are persons, whereas the holy spirit is a force that is merely frequently referred to as if it were a person.

  5. the wts claims that ezekial's prophecy of the jews returning to their land is fulfilled in their organization.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  JosephMalik

  The prophecy, however, depicts the opposite as taking place, namely that deputized angels would gather Jehovah's anointed ones from wherever they may be residing on the earth.

  YouKnow.

  Oops! Another error and a whopper at that. The prophecy again states:

  :31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: :32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: :33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

  Where are the anointed ones You Know? I do not see any. Did you make up this alteration of the text yourself or did you let the Watchtower do it for you? And when the Son of man shall come ALL Nations shall be gathered. Makes no difference if they still exist or have passed into history. All nations means exactly what it says, taking in all mankind from the very beginning of man until this time. After all this is the time for the resurrection and Nations with sheep are found everywhere in time, not just in our present time. To our Lord such Nations no longer in existence are simply asleep and exist in Him. Also notice that who is selected and who is rejected in such texts is based upon what they are as human beings, their human kindness to others not on their biblical beliefs or religious affiliation. The WT does not understand the resurrection or who such sheep are or the Kingdom itself and it shows. We have discussed this text many times before and you still do not get it do you? Since you apply it only to the anointed as you call them, prove it here and now. But the text applies to all sheep, anointed or not, good or bad but still worthy since anyone raised by our Lord for any reason will be an immortal human being in this Kingdom. Only the condemned are rejected as goats as they are beyond help and not fit human beings to bring into this Kingdom. Joseph
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  52

  65 QUESTIONS---FIRST 10 ANSWERS

  by You Know in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  with that in mind, then, we can better appreciate what jesus was referring to when he spoke about the temple of his body.

  thats because they are persons, whereas the holy spirit is a force that is merely frequently referred to as if it were a person.

  5. the wts claims that ezekial's prophecy of the jews returning to their land is fulfilled in their organization.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  JosephMalik

  You Know,

  Your answer to question 2 is pure nonsense, nothing more than Watchtower filler. What Jesus was talking about was His literal body which He called a temple. His remark was a prophecy and real, He meant what He said and your explanation makes Him out to be a false prophet. Notice:

  John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

  Did Jesus raise His own temple or body according to this scripture? Yes, of course exactly as promised. But to understand all this lets start at the beginning.

  :14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

  There is sufficient introduction given in John chapter 1 to prevent mis-application of this text but it simply states that the Word (a non human entity) was made (flesh) a human being. And this glorious human being was the ONLY begotten of the Father. Why? Because the Word actually made man in the beginning as stated in verse 10. But now we have a human being, the only
  human being in fact actually begotten of the Father. How the Word came into existence is not discussed in these texts since John 1:1 has the Word already existing with God before man was made and does not deal with this point.

  45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

  The last Adam (man) became (when?) a life-giving spirit. (after His death and resurrection of course) And some translations put the word became in front of the first Adam but the though still remains that it carries through to the last Adam as well to balance both half's. So what is the point of all this? And does spirit mean something more than non-human in this case?

  Now follow the context in Timothy and know why Paul wrote this way to the Corinthians he was correcting and understand how and why our Lord can make immortal man out of common man. The hypostasis nature of the Christ and His immortal nature as a human is taught here:

  16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

  Now is this scripture teaching that only Jesus has immortality? No! Who is the light which no man can approach and is He (the one producing it) immortal as well? The light is God of course and this God is also immortal according to this same Paul in this same letter at 1 Timothy 1:17. Follow the context and see that this human Jesus is the only human in the universe to gain immortality to this date.

  Yes, this human Jesus of all mankind is the only human to hath immortality and now dwells in places no man hath seen. This is because God restored him to the glory He had before the world was in answer to His prayer. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. And more to the point regarding question 2 this non-human Word or Logos raised by the Father could raise His own human body just as he prophesied: John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. The result is both human and non-human natures, a hypostatic union that our Lord is permitted to maintain by His Fathers own permission as written in : John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. :18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. So it is all there YK. Future use of this body does not change history nor does it nullify the value of the sacrifice offered in any way. Where is your proof that it does? You are wrong just as the Watchtower is wrong on this matter and this shows in your

  ambiguous answer, but perhaps someone else will grasp what I am saying here.

  Joseph
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  NEW Article: Head Coverings for Women

  by SYN in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scully, this is for you the watchtower july 15.

  2002 pages 26-27 .

  questions from readers .

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  JosephMalik

  dungbeetle,

  The problem here is that the WT is following the custom of the Jewish Christians in the group that were still keeping the Law. They wrote Paul about their beliefs and he is responding. Paul refutes their arguments and quotes from their letters but no one notices this kind of back and forth banter that we use in our posts all the time.

  Forget the personal pronoun I that Paul uses when he quotes their view as the information that follows is simply being quoted from their letter and does not represent Paul's view. He refutes such material after listing it with a single word or phrase like we do here all the time but punctuation and biblical format hides such facts.

  What this shows us all is that the Watchtower does not have a clue as to what the scriptures teach and cannot even read or interpret the text in an intelligent way. They bungle these texts badly taking the opposite view to the one intended. Real dummies but it is a crime that so many people have fallen victim to them and have given up their lives to such ignorance.

  Joseph