as i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
Sorry LT,
You missed the point again. Perhaps you should go back and review my comments carefully. Heaven is not a word that stands for only one thing. Like the word spirit, or Kingdom such words have many uses. You choose to limit their application the way AuldSoul limits such words. As far as Kind is concerned, this is a discussion group so here you should prove scripturally why you disagree with any point made.
Joseph
as i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
The question remains - where is Jesus now? LT, I answered it. He is with the Father. You said: In reference to seeds, how is it they change? A seed of a given genus is a seed of that genus. But these are used in a metaphor LT. To you point however the Kind does not change so non-human beings cannot result from them. Such thinking does not originate from God. The only thing that changes is the purpose that such seeds serve in God’s plan for his day of rest.
Tell us what you believe and teach? What is your hope if any? Do you teach Christ was created? Let us know your position on these things so we can all be enlightened.
Joseph
as i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
AuldSoul,
I have no problem with such texts. They teach that our Lord will descend, come back here to earth in the flesh to raise humans once again. Nowhere do they indicate that our Lord will remain in the clouds and go away to somewhere else. For someone that can walk on water, something even Peter could do for a while, meeting our Lord in the air on His way down should be no problem. Raising us up from death, now I would think that would be far more difficult than just descending with Him. Strange that if we are already alive somewhere as many teach why we even need a resurrection of how we came to be dead once again to be so resurrected?
Joseph
as i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
Hellrider,
Perceptions, promises, our hope with time taken out of the equation and death viewed only as sleep. That is where the problem is. Things taken literally that should have been taken in context with the plan formed in the beginning as discussed here. The idea that we will somhow be like God literally came from the Serpent and that is the thinking actually being pushed by most today.
Joseph
as i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. (NIV) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. Gumby, All Paul is saying is that death is not a concern to us. Time stops at death and our next thoughts will be with the Lord in his kingdom not in a mortal body but in a new body designed to live. Our only concern is that we may be accepted of him to attain such life. (not everyone that ever lived will be resurrected into such kingdom and some found evil slaves will not be accepted by him as well) Gumby said: Is this body spoken of here, the new physical body paul mentions when he speaks of "when that which is corruptable that will put on incorruption" in your book? Yes. Paul simply contrast the mortal with the immortal in several different ways to satisfy all the Corinthians with which he was corresponding. He used words that would satisfy them both Jew (heavenly, spiritual) and Greek (corruption, incorruption). You will notice when not pressed the way he was by their first letter (where he called them fools or foolish) he lowers the bar and simply goes from mortal to life. (not spiritual, heavenly, incorruption or things like that). Back to basics more or less. LT asks: However I do have to ask where you think Jesus flew off to, at his ascention, in view of your comment to AuldSoul about "flying off into the universe"? LT, AuldSoul was applying words in a way not supported by the context in which such words were used. He gave no consideration to other uses that such words support. Jesus is human, that much we know and achieved immortality while here on earth. The Word is not human and we perceive this as well. There is no one else like him as both natures are now contained in him. Which nature applies to us? Only the (immortal) human one offered in sacrifice and raised to life once again. Even in the presence of God this human nature cannot be ignored or rejected as if it no longer exists or applies. Jesus left the earth visibly so we would know and can be assured that he will return visibly as well in this same human form the nature that applies to us. Therefore for all practical purposes there now is an (only immortal human) Jesus existing alongside the immortal God waiting to return here in the flesh once again. This is all we are supposed to know and perceive. Detail is not provided how this could be and so answers are not available beyond this. How do you make a human being from the dust of the ground or even from the spirit that returns to God at death? Exactly what is God made of? Hopeless questions to which no detailed answers are available. LT said: Futher, in reference to "seed" in my last post I actually had in mind 1.Pet.1:23: KJV: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Like Paul, Peter directly refers to scripture in this text the word of God which liveth and abideth of ever. In such texts we have two sets of seeds, the one from the woman and the one from the Serpent. Only one of these will survive in the end. Which one are we derived from? Can we go from one to the other? Yes, just as if we were originally born of the seed of the women in the first place. This has been illustrated in other ways in scripture as well. Wheat and weeds, sheep and goats. Wheat and sheep survive, weeds and goats do not. The choice of what we are to be is ours.
Joseph
as i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
Gumby,
Nope. Nothing there. Guess again.
Joseph
as i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
AuldSoul,
Simple, I did not deviate from the God's plan the way you do. I stayed with the message and that message is for a seed, the seed of the woman Eve the mother of everyone living, to inhabit this earth. Paul knew the story and worked Adam along with that seed into the discussion. You take words like spirit, spiritual and heavenly and go flying off into the universe and think you got it right. You think you understand words like that? Where is it taught in scripture that human beings will become non-human beings? Since when was that God's plan? Where in the story of Adam and Eve are we to find it?
Joseph
as i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
LT,
Too bad not not too late to change your mind LT. After introducing Adam and the last Adam he teaches that this last Adam is our life giver. And this last Adam (formally the Word we now know) was from heaven. This is basically the same thing John taught in John 1:1-14.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
But Paul goes a little farther since this man became the first immortal human being on earth. Our hope therefore is no longer in an Adam like mortal resurrection like Lazarus had but one to immortal human life like the second man (Jesus Christ ) from heaven gained for us.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
It is the image of this immortal one that we will bear.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. (second Adam the man the human being under discussion)
Joseph
as i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
The Corinthian congregation was predominantly Gentile,
AuldSoul,
How do you know? Did you count them? Do you know how many Jews and how many Greeks there were? No you do not. By paying attention to the doctrines being offered to Paul and how Paul used words spcifically targeted to them it can be observed rather easily that a sizable number of Jews were active in that congregation. 1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. All the proof needed from Paul's own pen. Where is your proof that such resurrection is to non-human life? Joseph
as i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
AuldSoul,
They sure were with some Gentiles mixed in among them. Jews were everywhere to be found in Paul's territories as a consequence of the dispora. Where you been?
1Cor 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Joseph
