As i mentioned in my last post that im studying the book what the bible really teaches,anyway im now on the bit about who is Jesus,now it uses the scripture col1:15 does this prove he was created where it says hes the firstborn.
Was Jesus the first creation.
by ajie 221 Replies latest watchtower bible
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ozziepost
No, it says nothing about him being created - that's a Watchtower assumption that dubbies take to be true because their masters in Crooklyn repeat it so often!
The eldest son in a family i.e. by virtue of being firstborn, had seniority and rights. It's that preeminence that the text is speaking about, not his creation.
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ithinkisee
There is a Greek word for "first created" and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn" and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo and it is not used here.
Interestingly, "firstborn" doesn't always mean "first one born" in the scriptures, and in many translations isn't even rendered "firstborn", but instead, "deserving one" or "pre-eminent one".
As an example:
(Genesis 41:51-52 NWT) 51 So Joseph called the name of the firstborn Ma·nas´seh, because, to quote him, “God has made me forget all my trouble and all the house of my father.” 52 And the name of the second he called E´phra·im, because, to quote him, “God has made me fruitful in the land of my wretchedness.”
Notice who the firstborn here is: Manasseh. Right? But read on in Jeremiah:
(Jeremiah 31:9 NWT) 9 With weeping they will come, and with [their] entreaties for favor I shall bring them. I shall make them walk to torrent valleys of water, in a right way in which they will not be caused to stumble. For I have become to Israel a Father; and as for E´phra·im, he is my firstborn.”
Looks like Jehovah pulled a switcheroo! Now Ephraim is the firstborn. Not because he was the "first one born", but because he was the "deserving one". The same is true when Jehovah spoke of David:
(Psalm 89:20 NWT) I have found David my servant; With my holy oil I have anointed him,
(Psalm 89:27 NWT) Also, I myself shall place him as firstborn, The most high of the kings of the earth.David was certainly NOT the first one born - not even in his own fleshly family! But he was the "deserving one". Now let's go back
(Colossians 1:15) 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. . .
When read in context with the rest of scripture as a Trinitarian, it actually doesn't conflict at all. From their viewpoint, Jesus was the pre-eminent one over all creation and scripture supports this!
Other Translations:
(Col 1:15 CEV) Christ is exactly like God, who cannot be seen. He is the first-born Son, superior to all creation.
(Col 1:15 ALT) who is [the] image of the invisible God, first-born of [fig., existing before] all creation,
(Col 1:15 NIV) 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Colossians 1:15-17 (Wycliffe New Testament) 15 Which is the image of God invisible, the first begotten of each creature.
Colossians 1:15-17 (New Living Translation) 15Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation.
Another example where firstborn does not mean "first one borne" is just three verses later, in Colossians 1:18:
(Colossians 1:18 NWT) 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things;
Jesus wasn't "first" from the dead! Lazarus was resurrected before Jesus (and others). But Jesus certainly was the PREEMINENT ONE raised from the dead!
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I am not really a big believer in the whole Christian thing at the moment, but it is utterly shocking to me how the JWs would misrepresent real Christianity so shamelessly!
-ithinkisee
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LittleToe
A childless couple could adopt, too. Hence this title would confer all the legal rights associated with that role.
Another case of the WTS ignoring what doesn't fit their ideology. They strain out the gnat and gulp down the camel!
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ozziepost
Seems so simple now, doesn't it. LT!
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mouthy
Col 1:15 Proves what twisters of the Bible the WT is. !They added the word ( other) yes in brackets -added anyway!!! to prove that Jesus was created!!! But to ME that scripture proves that JESUS created ALL things !!!Take out the( other )---- So in the beginning the scripture that says "LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE: is The Father,the Son, the Holy Spirit...( body- soul & spirit)
They worked together !!!!!!my 2 cents > some one understand it -I do....
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Deputy Dog
The thing that I find stange, is how the JW's came to think that "first born" means born first. When in the bible, many of the "first born" were born last, like King David for example.D Dog
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mouthy
The thing that I find stange, is how the JW's came to think that "first born" means born first. When in the bible, many of the "first born" were born last, like King David for example.Because they twist the scriptures to their own destruction
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Hellrider
Mouthy: Didn`t they add the brackets in their later versions? I`ve heard that in the first edition of the NWT, the "other" wasn`t even in brackets...
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mouthy
I didnt know that !!hellrider your probably right....I hope some one will tell us if that is true or not.... They change so much over the years--- Russell was the one who said we didnt need an Organization -now you are not getting a resurrection UNLESS you go through the Organisation