Captives of a Concept: Understanding the illusionary concept that holds millions of Jehovah's Witnesses captive by controlling how they think and act without them realizing it.
Even if you are under the impression that there is an “illusionary concept that holds millions of Jehovah's Witnesses captive by controlling how they think” you're still allowing others to dominate your thinking if this book changed your mind about anything. You stated, “there is not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that this is not God's organization.” You won't find scientific evidence for the existence of God in any other religion, so unless you can establish this fundamental concept elsewhere and because there's an emotional connection, it's you that's trying to contaminate your wives mind with illusionary concepts. I understand her position. You would have to post something in the book that convinced you of one thing or another here so I can see what it says. I can assure you that anything in the book can be deduced logically and disproved.
alice.in.wonderland
JoinedPosts by alice.in.wonderland
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My sucky situation
by brotherdan inhi guys,.
sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were still cleaning toilets.. after about 2 years of it i couldn't do it anymore.
i always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization.
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alice.in.wonderland
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Australian brothers VERY negative comments regarding new "generations" ... some leaving Bethel..will this blow up in the Watchtowers face?
by Witness 007 ina brother i spoke with from bethel to me seemed discouraged and lacking zeal latley...he spoke of leaving which shocked me since he was there for decades...he left to get a full time job!!!
it was his whole reason for living since i've known him!
others have said the new doctrine of "blended generations" of anionted seeing armagedon is "confusing" or "i just don't get it"...one brother my only close friend is furious and said i qoute..."they seem to be blowing smoke up our ass!
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alice.in.wonderland
As for anyone's hopes about anyone leaving Jehovah's Organization because of a refinement to Matthew 24:34 (a scripture that can only be defined by the passage of time) this isn't why people resist the truth. Most people don't fully understand the grand theme of the Bible let alone understand the true meaning of Matthew 24:34.
Human desire is at the root of decision making.
Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever. 1 John 2:15-17
The reason most people in developed nations reject God is because they desire other things. If people have counter desires that puts them at odds with God they have no interest in pursuing anything positive related to God. You can deceive yourself and may have limited success in deceiving others, but this doesn't change reality.
For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he is deceiving his own mind. Galatians 6:3
There's more superiority in being right than wrong and more freedom in having a future than being stuck on a dead end street. -
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My Standing "Bet" With JW Family
by TD inonce a year, i attend the sunday afternoon session of the district convention with my wife.
my wife and her family would like me to attend more jw functions, but besides not being terribly religious at all, i am put off by the open dishonesty of the jw parent organization.. this has led to a "bet" of sorts.
if i can make it through the sunday session without hearing a single demonstrably false statement made from the stage, i will attend more functions at the local level.. things are usually just fine until the bethel speaker takes the stage.
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alice.in.wonderland
"Nope Alice. Science will not create a perfect society, but it'll come far closer than the WT ever well."
A supreme being (mankind's creator) would restore humanity to its original perfect state, not an organization disconnected from God. This makes more sense than people floating off to heaven or hell for the indefinite future of planet earth after their temporary, physical housing gives out.
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Another Question for Debator, If I May...
by AGuest inand may you have peace!.
i was wondering if you could explain for me, please, how it is that "armageddon" is supposed to occur "soon"... when, according to "the bible"... it doesn't occur until after the 1,000 years (which haven't even started, right?)...
have ended?
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alice.in.wonderland
What you have cited here is the final test after the grand millennium, not Armageddon. If you have the Watchtower CD or the Revelation Book this is thoroughly explained:
re chap. 40 pp. 291-292 Crushing the Serpent’s Head
The Final Test
By the end of the Thousand Year Reign, all earth will have come to resemble the original Eden. It will be a veritable paradise. Perfect mankind will no longer need a high priest to intercede for it before God, since all traces of Adamic sin will have been removed and the last enemy, death, brought to nothing. Christ’s Kingdom will have achieved God’s purpose to create one world with one government. At this point, Jesus “hands over the kingdom to his God and Father.”—1 Corinthians 15:22-26; Romans 15:12.
It is now time for a final test. Will that perfected world of mankind, in contrast with the first humans in Eden, stand firm in its integrity? John tells us what happens: “Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.”—Revelation 20:7-9a.
How will Satan’s last effort fare? He deceives “those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog,” and leads them to “the war.” Who could possibly side with Satan after a thousand years of joyful, upbuilding theocratic rule? Well, do not forget that Satan was able to mislead the perfect Adam and Eve while they were enjoying life in the Paradise of Eden. And he was able to lead astray heavenly angels who had seen the bad results of the original rebellion. (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6) So we should not be surprised that some perfect humans will be enticed to follow Satan even after a delightful thousand years of rule by God’s Kingdom.
The Bible calls these rebels “nations in the four corners of the earth.” This does not mean that mankind will have been divided once again into mutually exclusive national entities. It merely indicates that these will separate themselves from Jehovah’s righteous, loyal ones and manifest the same bad spirit that the nations show today. They will “think up an injurious scheme,” as did the Gog of Magog in Ezekiel’s prophecy, with a goal of destroying theocratic government on earth. (Ezekiel 38:3, 10-12) Hence, they are called “Gog and Magog.”
The number of those who join Satan in his revolt will be “as the sand of the sea.” How many is that? There is no foreordained number. (Compare Joshua 11:4; Judges 7:12.) The final total number of rebels will depend on how each individual reacts to Satan’s deceptive wiles. Doubtless, though, there will be a considerable number, since they will feel strong enough to overcome “the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.”
“The beloved city” must be the city that is spoken of by the glorified Jesus Christ to his followers at Revelation 3:12 and that he calls “the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God.” Since this is a heavenly organization, how could those earthly forces ‘encircle’ it? In that they encircle “the camp of the holy ones.” A camp is outside a city; therefore, “the camp of the holy ones” must represent those on earth outside the heavenly location of New Jerusalem who loyally support Jehovah’s governmental arrangement. When the rebels under Satan attack those faithful ones, the Lord Jesus regards it as an assault on him. (Matthew 25:40, 45) “Those nations” will try to wipe out all that the heavenly New Jerusalem has accomplished in making earth a paradise. So in attacking “the camp of the holy ones,” they are also attacking “the beloved city.” -
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My Standing "Bet" With JW Family
by TD inonce a year, i attend the sunday afternoon session of the district convention with my wife.
my wife and her family would like me to attend more jw functions, but besides not being terribly religious at all, i am put off by the open dishonesty of the jw parent organization.. this has led to a "bet" of sorts.
if i can make it through the sunday session without hearing a single demonstrably false statement made from the stage, i will attend more functions at the local level.. things are usually just fine until the bethel speaker takes the stage.
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alice.in.wonderland
The truth of the matter is regardless of the honesty of what is written on printed page (including the Bible) about God, this is not concrete evidence for God. The only evidence for this in our time is God's active force. Some religions make claims to this end and this is what one person said about it:
Has matter/energy always existed?
"On the contrary, is any religion able to prove that a soul/spirit exists? You can quote the Bible all you want or claim that you "feel" the energy inside you, but I'll claim that it is just normal brain chemistry combined with mythologies learned through enculturation and socialization."
So it's something a person has to investigate themselves. -
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My Standing "Bet" With JW Family
by TD inonce a year, i attend the sunday afternoon session of the district convention with my wife.
my wife and her family would like me to attend more jw functions, but besides not being terribly religious at all, i am put off by the open dishonesty of the jw parent organization.. this has led to a "bet" of sorts.
if i can make it through the sunday session without hearing a single demonstrably false statement made from the stage, i will attend more functions at the local level.. things are usually just fine until the bethel speaker takes the stage.
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alice.in.wonderland
When I speak to you it appears if I'm speaking with Edward Norton, someone with one of the sharper intellects that posts here. I've never come across someone in the Christian congregation with an unbelieving mate that would actual study unless they came into the Truth, let alone arrive at your level of Bible teachings, so your claim always made me wonder.
jv chap. 10 p. 131 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth
Barbour referred to the idea that Christ by his death paid the penalty for sin for the offspring of Adam as being “unscriptural, and obnoxious to all our ideas of justice.”In short, paying the penalty for sin for the offspring of Adam simply means atonement for imperfection we cannot correct ourselves, not sins for which one is unrepentant, especially grave errors. The atonement of a perfect man paves the way for the restoration of a perfect society. Most secular minded individuals have difficulty comprehending spiritual matters or taking them seriously.
For the speech about the torture stake is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is God’s power. For it is written: “I will make the wisdom of the wise [men] perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual [men] I will shove aside.” Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness of what is preached to save those believing. 1 Corinthians 1:18-21
For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of man that is in him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God, except the spirit of God. Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God. These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by [the] spirit, as we combine spiritual [matters] with spiritual [words].
But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually. However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:11-16
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20000922/article_02.htm
Will Science Create a Perfect Society? -
126
Australian brothers VERY negative comments regarding new "generations" ... some leaving Bethel..will this blow up in the Watchtowers face?
by Witness 007 ina brother i spoke with from bethel to me seemed discouraged and lacking zeal latley...he spoke of leaving which shocked me since he was there for decades...he left to get a full time job!!!
it was his whole reason for living since i've known him!
others have said the new doctrine of "blended generations" of anionted seeing armagedon is "confusing" or "i just don't get it"...one brother my only close friend is furious and said i qoute..."they seem to be blowing smoke up our ass!
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alice.in.wonderland
You're married? Yes I'm married.
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126
Australian brothers VERY negative comments regarding new "generations" ... some leaving Bethel..will this blow up in the Watchtowers face?
by Witness 007 ina brother i spoke with from bethel to me seemed discouraged and lacking zeal latley...he spoke of leaving which shocked me since he was there for decades...he left to get a full time job!!!
it was his whole reason for living since i've known him!
others have said the new doctrine of "blended generations" of anionted seeing armagedon is "confusing" or "i just don't get it"...one brother my only close friend is furious and said i qoute..."they seem to be blowing smoke up our ass!
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alice.in.wonderland
I'm not a single mom. Palmtree67 is just trying to run me down with degrading speech like others do here while they have the opportunity. I'm not particularity interested in acquiring this repugnant, malignant personality trait.
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126
Australian brothers VERY negative comments regarding new "generations" ... some leaving Bethel..will this blow up in the Watchtowers face?
by Witness 007 ina brother i spoke with from bethel to me seemed discouraged and lacking zeal latley...he spoke of leaving which shocked me since he was there for decades...he left to get a full time job!!!
it was his whole reason for living since i've known him!
others have said the new doctrine of "blended generations" of anionted seeing armagedon is "confusing" or "i just don't get it"...one brother my only close friend is furious and said i qoute..."they seem to be blowing smoke up our ass!
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alice.in.wonderland
Because the generation in Matthew 24:34 applies to a time frame and classification of people it can only be accurately defined with the passage of time, unless God provided a divine revelation that explained every Biblical matter like in this photo:
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Preparing for D2D Opposition July 26, 2010 KM
by blondie inso there is nothing negative to be said about jws?
are they perfect?
because it is negative does it mean it is a lie?.
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alice.in.wonderland
Here's a few links showing that it's not just the WTS who pull this crap:
http://so4j.com/cults-and-false-teachings.php
Judgment Day-Are You Ready?
http://so4j.com/judgment-day-are-you-ready-so4j-tv-show-video.php
Listening Jesus | SO4J-TV prepare us for judgment day isn't much different than listening to Howard Stern or Larry Flint expose secrets or give some whacked out assessment of a cult. Par the course for some here.
