Posts by alice.in.wonderland

30

Dealing with the reality of death. How do you?

by confliction in

jw
friends

since i've come to the realization and conclusion that i've been living a fictional lifestyle for the last 17 years, i've also come to identify with agnosticism.. .

but one issue that's been taking it's emotional toll on me lately is the realization of the fictitious paradisiac earth.. it was the ultimate goal as a witness- the answer to everything.

even if you had questions that couldn't be answered, you were to "wait until the paradise and ask" when you got there.. .

alice.in.wonderland

"Hi confliction,

I stopped worrying about death once I realized that I didn't even really want to live forever, so much as I was conditioned to believe that's what I wanted."

Exactly.

I have seen the occupation that God has given to the sons of mankind in which to be occupied. Everything he has made pretty in its time. Even time indefinite he has put in their heart, that mankind may never find out the work that the [true] God has made from the start to the finish. Ecclesiastes 3:10-11

It's been my experience in communication with professionals in the medical field is people become rather desperate upon impending threats to their life. Talk is cheap when there's always tomorrow.

55

Is The Watchtower Organization A Cult To You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i used to call them "cult like" but i do believe they are a "cult".. what's your opinion?.

alice.in.wonderland

"Minimus, in my opinion, JWs, the WTB&TS are a danferous, high-mind-control cult.

To have been raised as a 3rd generation JW and not grasped the insiduous danger of being in a cult until reaching 51 years of age is something that I'm extremely ashamed of. If anything, the cult-like characteristics displayed by the members become more pronounced every day. I'm just so glad that I'm no longer held in their clutches - just my wife to help break free, now!

lifelong humanist"

By acknowledging you're a humanist, what religion can you honestly say isn't a dangerous, high-mind-control cult?

30

Dealing with the reality of death. How do you?

by confliction in

jw
friends

since i've come to the realization and conclusion that i've been living a fictional lifestyle for the last 17 years, i've also come to identify with agnosticism.. .

but one issue that's been taking it's emotional toll on me lately is the realization of the fictitious paradisiac earth.. it was the ultimate goal as a witness- the answer to everything.

even if you had questions that couldn't be answered, you were to "wait until the paradise and ask" when you got there.. .

alice.in.wonderland

This is a ridicules question. Former members of Christendom's Churches describe their existence relative to what they believed as follows:

Yes, praying may be comforting, but...

Yes, life is too short to think you have all the answers. I'm not too happy about my mortality, and the fact I won't live long enough to learn all that science can learn about the universe, but reality is what it is. I'd rather know I went through my life understanding my predicament than to go through my life in a dense fog of delusion. Posted by tony62

it-1 p. 997 Great Crowd

The Lamb’s guiding them to “fountains of waters of life” finds a parallel at Revelation 22:17, which says: “The spirit and the bride keep on saying: ‘Come!’ And let anyone hearing say: ‘Come!’ and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.” The “bride” is clearly identified in the Scriptures as the anointed Christian congregation, espoused to the heavenly Bridegroom, Christ Jesus. (Eph 5:25-27; 2Co 11:2; Re 19:7-9; 21:9-11) The invitation to “take life’s water free” presented by the heavenly “bride” class is obviously open to an unlimited number of persons, “anyone that wishes.” Likewise unnumbered are the “great crowd,” the vision at Revelation 7:9 thereby harmonizing with that at Revelation 22:17.

I can confidently conclude the “fountains of waters of life” have been thoroughly rejected by conscious choice by some, so why ask redundant questions? If you didn't acquire concrete evidence for God in Jehovah's Organization, the truth of the matter is there was something missing. What it comes down to in an organization where all questions are answered is what a person asked for when coming to conclusions for “evidence for God.”

For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking it will be opened. Indeed, which father is there among you who, if his son asks for a fish, will perhaps hand him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he also asks for an egg, will hand him a scorpion? Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!” Luke 11:10-13

So the question is; in prayer, what did you ask for?

I write you these things that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that, no matter what it is that we ask according to his will, he hears us. Further, if we know he hears us respecting whatever we are asking, we know we are to have the things asked since we have asked them of him. 1 John 5:13-15

55

Is The Watchtower Organization A Cult To You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i used to call them "cult like" but i do believe they are a "cult".. what's your opinion?.

alice.in.wonderland

"I've posted this before, but as you read through the list pause and reflect onto the WTS/JWS

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader."

These conclusions can be reached if you cut Jehovah out of the picture. There's definitely a disconnect between God and society.

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

Accountability to God is one of the most important principles taught by Jehovah's Witnesses. From what I've observed it's opposers that confuse loyalty to institutional churches with loyalty to God.

For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart. And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting. Hebrews 4:12-13

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

Jehovah's Witnesses examine all aspects of their personalty and the world around them and openly accept the reasonable inquiry of others.

But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually. However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:14-16

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Have you talked to Joel Osteen and others about this? It is he and many others that are pushing the prosperity gospel. Nobody that volunteers their time and effort at Bethel headquarters uses any of the money that goes into the organization for luxury items including the governing body, unlike any other organized religion and their leaders. I couldn't find any financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses or any independently audited financial statements, but there's a donation option here:

http://www.joelosteen.com/

Unlike anything you'll find here:

http://www.watchtower.org/

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

Fear about an impending catastrophe isn't unreasonable in this system. As for the rest you would have to be more specific.

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

If you can care less about God and find his commandments burdensome, there's legitimate reason to leave. It's not a positive decision and at the same time it isn't necessarily evil.

For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

It hasn't been my experience that the local body of elders ever ransacked my house and hung me out to dry. It seems my experiences are different than the persecution complex exhibited by select former members.

There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

I think what you meant to say is there are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses directed at the group/leader.

In fact, to this [course] you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving you a model for you to follow his steps closely. He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth. When he was being reviled, he did not go reviling in return. When he was suffering, he did not go threatening, but kept on committing himself to the one who judges righteously. 1 Peter 2:21-23

For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. Of how much more severe a punishment, do you think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt? For we know him that said: “Vengeance is mine; I will recompense”; and again: “Jehovah will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of [the] living God. Hebrews 10:26-31

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

Not true amongst subjects of God:

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom [paid] by Christ Jesus. Romans 3:23-24

The group/leader is always right.

This is true. Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, [the] only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 1:17

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

This is true. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing truth.

And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32

68

Aren't You Embarrassed That YOU Ever Believed Any Of The Watchtower Bullsh*t?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i do think about that and i realize that i should've gotten out sooner.

( i stayed in longer for various reasons).

but the last few years i knew it was bullsh*t!

alice.in.wonderland

If you really are embarrassed or ashamed of your prior association with Jehovah's Witnesses I'm not at all surprised. My parents made me go out in service in Jr. High School. My father knocks on a door and guess who answers? Someone from school. Embarrassing...yes, but after a while you have to grow up. Self-esteem often has everything to do with a person's character and thinking, not reality.

w59 8/15 p. 503 par. 14 Fear Jehovah—Never Men

Today Jehovah’s witnesses are as unpopular as Jesus was. He said it would be so. “You will be hated by all people on account of my name.” “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you.” (Matt. 10:22; John 15:18) Do you want to make the same mistake as Peter did? Are you also ashamed of these followers of Christ just because they are not liked in this world, but hated and spoken against? If yes, please learn from Peter. What did he do? “He went outside and wept bitterly.” (Matt. 26:75) He had good reason for doing so, and the same is true of persons acting today as he did 1900 years ago. But Peter did more than weep. He admitted his weakness and mistake, he did not try to find excuses for his compromising. He changed his attitude, and the Bible record tells us that he became one of the most fearless ministers of the unpopular condemned Jesus Christ; yes, he even died as a martyr. He died with a good name, not with men, but with Jehovah God.

41

Do You Like People - Period?

by snowbird in

jw
friends

well, do you?.

sometimes, i like them -other times, i'm not so sure.. syl.

alice.in.wonderland

Yes. Lots of "people" here have abby-normal brains and are thus in a state of confusion about who they like/ dislike. You'll probably get a different answer every day of the week.

g80 4/8 pp. 10-11 People—Why They Act the Way They Do

“The immature brain is dependent on sensory stimulation for normal growth,” and “when an infant is rocked or cuddled, impulses are directed to the cerebellum that stimulate its development.” This is important, for the cerebellum controls movement and if it is deprived of these pleasurable impulses sufficient nerve synapses do not form, and development is abnormal. The result may be an impulsive, uncontrolled, violent personality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ_pKqiB5Rg&feature=related

142

My letter to my aunt.

by alice.in.wonderland in

my grandparents are jehovah's witnesses and didn't raise their daughter to behave in such a manner.

i sent her this letter:.

g82 5/8 pp.

alice.in.wonderland

"Ummmm RACHEL.....

I am from Houston originally!

And if you don't discern those type of social understandings than you need to slap your mama for failing you in basic JW and Southern etiquette.

Than again Houston does have white-trash cycling JWs......who drift in and drift out of the truth, granted many of them were from Pasadena. Come to think of it .....that would explain your drug use and immoral ways....

Explains a lot..."

White-trash!? So why did you move to a state that sponsors terrorism, past and current support for such organizations as Hezbollah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xstac_slayer-jihad_music

68

Aren't You Embarrassed That YOU Ever Believed Any Of The Watchtower Bullsh*t?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i do think about that and i realize that i should've gotten out sooner.

( i stayed in longer for various reasons).

but the last few years i knew it was bullsh*t!

alice.in.wonderland

What is most unsettling about the people that used to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses here is they believe different things in the context of religion but the one truth that has global appeal is false. How can you claim the Bible is illogical, immoral and untrue if you're not even in agreement amongst yourself about the nature of God, his existence or non-existence? Why is what you believe anymore credible than what the Bible teaches?

Rbi8 p. 6 Introduction

THE Holy Bible is a written revelation from the Sovereign Lord Jehovah to all people on this earth. This inspired book has global appeal, since it contains good news of a God-designed Messianic Kingdom that will establish peace and righteousness forever on a united Paradise earth. It shows that God lovingly provided a legal recovery from death for the world of fallen mankind by means of the ransom sacrifice of his Son Jesus Christ.—John 3:16.

This 1984 revised edition of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures richly enhances accurate Bible knowledge by means of several distinctive features such as the marginal (cross) references, an extensive footnote apparatus, a concordance (Bible Words Indexed) and an appendix. Modern computerization has assisted greatly in preparing these features.

MARGINAL REFERENCES: There are more than 125,000 marginal (cross) references in this edition. These citations demonstrate that there is at least a second witness to almost every Biblical matter. A careful comparison of the marginal references and an examination of the accompanying footnotes will reveal the interlocking harmony of the 66 Bible books, proving that they comprise one book, inspired by God.

it-1 p. 310 Bible

No other book took so long to complete as the Bible. In 1513 B.C.E. Moses began Bible writing. Other sacred writings were added to the inspired Scriptures until sometime after 443 B.C.E. when Nehemiah and Malachi completed their books. Then there was a gap in Bible writing for almost 500 years, until the apostle Matthew penned his historic account. Nearly 60 years later John, the last of the apostles, contributed his Gospel and three letters to complete the Bible’s canon. So, all together, a period of some 1,610 years was involved in producing the Bible. All the cowriters were Hebrews and, hence, part of that people “entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God.”—Ro 3:2.

142

My letter to my aunt.

by alice.in.wonderland in

my grandparents are jehovah's witnesses and didn't raise their daughter to behave in such a manner.

i sent her this letter:.

g82 5/8 pp.

alice.in.wonderland

"Why did you send your picture to a male poster than?"

It's strange that showing a picture is a violation of the social norm. I don't know...maybe in the Syrian Arab Republic women are covered from head to toe with turbans and the sheets they woke up in, but here in America, women can show their face in public.

25

Preparing information about cults and mind control to a therapist...

by confliction in

jw
friends

i'm currently visiting a psychologist/therapist to help me examine and work through my depression- i've had medical depression/anxiety all of my life.

i'm no longer anxious or excessively paranoid for the most part- that was a part of my younger childhood, probably from fears and nightmares of destruction at armageddon, and other childhood exaggerations and amplified fears.

but right now, she's treating me for a recent fall back into a depression.. anyways, for the most part, as you could guess, my depression stems from learning i have wasted my entire life (17 years) up to now in a cult, and pretty much my entire perceived world was nothing but an illusory concept.

alice.in.wonderland

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php

Members of suicide cults and suicide bombers that sacrifice their own life and kill innocent members of the public

jwfacts, this sounds terrible.

I've already stated this but there's no scientific evidence for mind control from the angle you are using: a person reads something and they are all of the sudden sucked into a destructive cult that is the equivalent of a vacuum isolated from society.

The world would be a much more precarious place if such a phenomenon did exist. Experimentation involving mind control has been conducted by the Department of Defense and this involved physical environmental factors working on a person's consciousness.

Google: mind control .gov

http://www.dod.gov/pubs/foi/02-A-0846RELEASE.pdf

Experimentation programs conducted by the Department of Defense that had CIA sponsorship or participation and that involved the administration to human subjects of drugs intended for mind-control or behavior-modification purposes

On the subject of Jihadist fundamentalists in the Arab world (suicide bombers): these extremists resort to violence because there are several social and physical environmental factors working on their consciousness.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5227

A jihad is a holy war against infidels, which means against anyone who doesn't think Islam is the true religion. Jihad is mentioned numerous times in the Koran. Many of the wars fought right after Islam was established in the seventh century were described as jihads. In the 19th and 20th centuries, the idea of jihad was revived by radicals and used to justify attacks on Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

For a Muslim fundamentalist, jihad is a win-win situation. If you conquer your enemies and live, Allah will give you the spoils of victory. If you die, you die a martyr and go to a blissful afterlife.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/sep2001/terr-s12.shtml

These acts of homicidal terrorism manifest a toxic combination of demoralized pessimism, religious and ultra-nationalist obscurantism, and, it must be added, political opportunism of the vilest character. Terrorist organizations—notwithstanding their anti-American rhetoric—base their tactics on the illusion that random acts of horrific violence will compel the US ruling class to shift its policies. Thus, in the final analysis, they hope to make a deal with Washington.
-----------------------------------------------
In addition, longstanding poverty and victimization from tyrannical governments exacts a potent motivating force that drives a terrorist's agenda.

The reason the vast majority of Muslims in the US and other developed nations (even though they may have read the modern Jihadist agenda popularized by Osama bin Laden) don't randomly blow themselves up, is because they have access to enlightenment, opportunity and prosperity.

Obscurantism (darkening) is the practice of deliberately preventing the facts or the full details of some matter from becoming known.