Posts by alice.in.wonderland

39

Jehovahs Witnesses have a lot more mental problems and much higher suicide rate

by TastingFreedom in

jw
friends

15 years ago

jerry bergman, ph.d. .

the first american study.

the watchtower influence was often not positive, and there was no evidence that it had in the long run helped those who had emotional problems when they joined.

7 months ago

alice.in.wonderland 15 years ago

What you cited was information related to Jehovah's Witnesses being imprisoned because of religious intolerance. Whoever the people were that made any claims obviously worked to the detriment of the test subjects. No medical professional of integrity would pursue this venue for research purposes unless it was a mad scientist like the Nazi physician Josef Mengele. Because of this in itself it doesn't meet the criteria of quality research.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/summary.html

The U.S. Congress declared the 1990s the Decade of the Brain. In this decade we have learned much through research—in basic neuroscience, behavioral science, and genetics—about the complex workings of the brain. Research can help us gain a further understanding of the fundamental mechanisms underlying thought, emotion, and behavior—and an understanding of what goes wrong in the brain in mental illness. It can also lead to better treatments and improved services for our diverse population.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/chapter8/sec1.html

Also, as this Surgeon General’s report emphasizes, high-quality research is a potent weapon against stigma, one that forces skeptics to let go of misconceptions and stereotypes concerning mental illness and the burdens experienced by persons who have these disorders.

A description of various stressful life events is explained here:

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/chapter4/sec1_1.html#stressful

Interventions for Stressful Life Events

Stressful life events, even for those at the peak of mental health, erode quality of life and place people at risk for symptoms and signs of mental disorders. There is an ever-expanding list of formal and informal interventions to aid individuals coping with adversity. Sources of informal interventions include family and friends, education, community services, self-help groups, social support networks, religious and spiritual endeavors, complementary healers, and physical activities. As valuable as these activities may be for promoting mental health, they have received less research attention than have interventions for mental disorders. Nevertheless, there are selected interventions to help people cope with stressors, such as bereavement programs and programs for caregivers (see Chapter 5) as well as couples therapy and physical activity.

Medical records are confidential unless permission is granted from the patient to release the records. To assess the mental health of Jehovah's Witnesses it's best to do this from the inside, than from the outside looking in as to whether they can attest to the validity of such information:

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/chapter1/sec1.html#mental_points

As will be evident in the pages that follow, “mental health” and “mental illness” are not polar opposites but may be thought of as points on a continuum. Mental health is a state of successful performance of mental function, resulting in productive activities, fulfilling relationships with other people, and the ability to adapt to change and to cope with adversity. Mental health is indispensable to personal well-being, family and interpersonal relationships, and contribution to community or society. It is easy to overlook the value of mental health until problems surface. Yet from early childhood until death, mental health is the springboard of thinking and communication skills, learning, emotional growth, resilience, and self-esteem. These are the ingredients of each individual’s successful contribution to community and society. Americans are inundated with messages about success—in school, in a profession, in parenting, in relationships—without appreciating that successful performance rests on a foundation of mental health.

w99 3/15 p. 23 Do Not Be Overcome by Anxiety

Philippians 4:6, 7 answers: “Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving let your petitions be made known to God; and the peace of God that excels all thought will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.” Yes, in response to our persistent prayers and supplications, Jehovah can give us an inner calm that protects our minds from being disturbed by unnecessary anxieties.—Jeremiah 17:7, 8; Matthew 6:25-34.

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209

My Family

by alice.in.wonderland in

15 years ago

to those that have accused me of insensitivity about abuse:.

my father and his brother and sisters were raised by a man who became rich in the 1950s.

he owned a construction company during a housing boom in a metropolitan area.

15 years ago

alice.in.wonderland 15 years ago

"Because Alice probably realizes that my initial post is pretty much spot on, she does exactly what I expected her to do: She accuses me of being a pathological liar, closed minded and that I'm the one who needs "professional" help, not her. Once again, this is typical when it comes to dealing with someone who cannot tell truth from lies and who has mental and/or emotional problems: they simply try playing the "I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I?" nonsense.
Alice, you're not fooling anyone on here except yourself. You have exposed yourself for what you truly are and it's not a very flattering picture. Like I said before, perhaps you need to spend more time getting professional help rather than spending your days on a board where you are viewed as nothing but a pathetic joke."

What you think is immaterial to me for a very simple reason. Yes, you can write off Jehovah's Witnesses as a man-made institution but there's also the other side of the coin to consider: rejecting the only true God and is inspired word. If you fit the Bible's description of wickedness it gives one reason for pause. If someone were to say, I fit the Bible's description of wickedness, there may be some things I need to work on. The difference is your complete and utter rejection of Jehovah's Witnesses. Is this based on exploiting the mistakes and imperfections of others, or because they don't teach the truth about Jehovah? You have yet to identify what the “truth” about reality is as indicated by one of your posts I brought to your attention sometime back. You should get a handle on reality and accurately define it first, and radically condemn second, otherwise you just come across as a hard-hearted vixen to anyone open-minded and objective.

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68

Well, I Guess There IS One Good Thing About the WTBTS...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

15 years ago

if you're the kind of person who would rather convince yourself that someone isn't "deserving" of your help... which may include your money... even an amount as small as $3.00... the wtbts was the right group to be a part of.

because they have every excuse under the sun for not giving to the poor... not helping out someone in need... not even giving a hungry one a meal (because we know, don't we, that every one of them is an alcoholic and/or drug addict... and everyone knows... particularly the wtbts... that those folks... those sinners... don't deserve to eat at all...).

looks like some of have learned well from them.

15 years ago

alice.in.wonderland 15 years ago

We already have an involuntary system we must submit to (forced philanthropy) that gives to the poor:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2119437/posts

Michelle Obama: "Give up a piece of your pie so someone can have more"

Our taxation system isn't voluntary: the federal government will take a piece of everyone's prosperity "pie" and redistribute it, " so everyone can have more."

Then he said to them: “Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God. Matthew 22:21

Jehovah's Witnesses pay taxes without complaining so what's the problem? You can't say the same for everyone else. One of the comments on the above news article:

"Jesus, I aint giving none of my pie for some fat lazy welfare drug addled layabout to get vouchers and handouts.

You want some pie, bake it yourself, honey."

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209

My Family

by alice.in.wonderland in

15 years ago

to those that have accused me of insensitivity about abuse:.

my father and his brother and sisters were raised by a man who became rich in the 1950s.

he owned a construction company during a housing boom in a metropolitan area.

15 years ago

alice.in.wonderland 15 years ago

My position isn't one of insensitivity toward anyone that claims they were abused, but how it gets back to Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization that acts as a protective agent toward child neglect, abuse. The “good of the Universal Church had to be considered in the final decision" as an official statement has been repeated by clergy up to and including the Pope, but this rhetoric has only been picked up and applied to Jehovah's Witnesses by ex-JWs. Mischievous persons have wedged their way into many profit and non-profit organizations and stirred up trouble. This information here is in compliance with RAINN:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandated_reporter

In many U.S. states and Australia, mandated reporters are professionals who, in the ordinary course of their work and because they have regular contact with children, disabled persons, senior citizens, or other identified vulnerable populations, are required to report (or cause a report to be made) whenever financial, physical, sexual or other types of abuse has been observed or is suspected, or when there is evidence of neglect, knowledge of an incident, or an imminent risk of serious harm. For example, in South Australia, a school teacher must report a child attending school seeming malnourished or presenting with bruising, complaining of neglect or otherwise demonstrating neglect or abuse at home, to child welfare authorities.

These professionals can be held liable by both the civil and criminal legal systems for intentionally failing to make a report but their name can also be said unidentified. Mandated reporters also include persons who have assumed full or intermittent responsibility for the care or custody of a child, dependent adult, or elder, whether or not they are compensated for their services. RAINN maintains a database of mandatory reporting regulations regarding children and the elderly by state, including who is required to report, standards of knowledge, definitions of a victim, to whom the report must be made, information required in the report, and regulations regarding timing and other procedures at http://www.rainn.org/public-policy/legal-resources/mandatory-reporting-database/

Abuse occurs where a victim has suffered physical injury inflicted other than by accidental means, has injuries, or is in a condition resulting from mistreatment, such as malnutrition, sexual molestation or exploitation, deprivation of necessities, emotional abuse or cruelty.

Neglect may be defined as abandonment, denial of proper care and attention physically, emotionally, or morally, or living under conditions, circumstances or associations injurious to well-being.

Typically, minimum requirements for what must be reported include:

A description of how the reporter learned of the injuries or neglect and of any actions taken to assist
Information on previous injuries, assaults, neglect or financial abuses
The date, time, nature, and extent of the abuse or neglect
The date of the report
The perpetrator's name, address, and relationship to the (possible) victim
The reporter's name, agency, position, address, telephone number, and signature

Law enforcement or public health agencies are responsible for immediately evaluating and classifying all reports of suspected abuse, neglect, or imminent risk. When reports contain sufficient information to warrant an investigation, authorities must make efforts within a reasonable time frame to begin an effective investigation, often within hours, particularly when there is an imminent risk of physical harm or another emergency; investigations must also be completed within a reasonable or specified time frame. The investigation also must also include a determination of whether the report was actually warranted or if it was unfounded.

There have been media outlets that have interviewed individuals that have told stories and no qualifying evidence was presented that would lead to an alleged perpetrator being charged with a crime, let alone a successful conviction. The only item of interest that made these stories "news worthy" was a " veiled threat of being excommunicated." If a person makes criminal accusations to anyone in a position of authority, they will explain “you need to be careful who you speak to about this sort of thing” if they choose not to act as a communication medium between the accuser and authorities. For future reference, I guess the elders should hand a copy of the official policy to the accuser so there are no communication problems as it provides instructions: " Additionally, the victim or anyone else who has knowledge of the allegation may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so." For incidents that slip through the cracks like what I stated about my father, it doesn't get back to Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization.

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45

6000 Years doctrine has a flaw... duh

by ex-witness in

15 years ago

let's see... .the sumerians existed 10000 years ago.. archaeologists have found a settlement in china with evidence of tools and agriculture that is over 1.36 million years old.

.

hmmm.. that's a big difference between 6000 and 1.36 million.... .

15 years ago

alice.in.wonderland 15 years ago

According to historical records, everything started off fully developed about 2000-3000 B.C. The earliest astronomical records record a solar eclipse in the 3rd millenium B.C.E. Radiocarbon dates, carbon-14 dates are not accurate prior to 1600 B.C. The oldest written tablets were Sumerian, dating back to 3500 B.C. Where is it substantiated that records go back 10,000 years?

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209

My Family

by alice.in.wonderland in

15 years ago

to those that have accused me of insensitivity about abuse:.

my father and his brother and sisters were raised by a man who became rich in the 1950s.

he owned a construction company during a housing boom in a metropolitan area.

15 years ago

alice.in.wonderland 15 years ago

"IF that post is as full of shit as most of yours, shove it."

No, it's not.

"Listening to one sickening, fawning apology for the WT after another is not fun."

In the country where I live, we enjoy freedom of religion.

http://www.moviescriptsandscreenplays.com/BenandMatt/goodwilltrans.html

"I'm afforded the right to speak in my own defense, sir by the Constitution of the United States. This is the same document that guarantees my liberty.

Now, liberty, in case you've forgotten, is the soul's right to breath. And when it cannot take a long breath, laws are girdered too tight." Will Hunting

Now that we're all in agreement, what we have here can be used for something other than to bicker.

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98

Blood Fractions

by alice.in.wonderland in

15 years ago

someone is pressing me about blood fractions on an unrelated thread, so i just moved the topic to an appropriate location.. "the point for me in every thread you touch is your sickening dishonesty and nauseating apologies for the old men in brooklyn who tell you what to do.. they have told you that products made from blood don't use blood, and you are so corrupt and gullible you just accept it.".

i accept any bible-based religion that adheres to the bible as its authority.. the purpose of this magazine, the watchtower, is to honor jehovah god, the supreme ruler of the universe.

just as watchtowers in ancient times enabled a person to observe developments from afar, so this magazine shows us the significance of world events in the light of bible prophecies.

8 months ago

alice.in.wonderland 15 years ago

I read your post AGuest but part of the problem is there are quite a few here that don't believe the Bible is God's inspired word. The writing of Leviticus was completed in 1512 B.C.E. Apart from the Old Testament and related sources, there are only a few surviving records of any sort from the Mosaic era, mostly in the form of inscribed stone slabs called stelae. There's certainly no record of blood transfusions as a medical practice, but both historical and Biblical records recount that humans worshiped a pantheon of gods made up of N'filim and fallen angels. Most polytheistic religions required human sacrifices and drank the sacrificial blood. Assyrians were noted to drink the blood of conquered nations while sieging their next conquest for intimidation purposes. As the book of Enoch includes the records of semi-divine entities drinking blood straight from a human, so do many other ancient religions. The Egyptian Sekhmet, the Greek Hecate, the Indian Kali and the Babylonian Lilitu are just a few examples.

The Bible book of John was completed in 98 C.E. I already stated that blood transfusions weren't a medical practice in the 1st century (the century the last book of the Bible was completed). The first historical attempt at a blood transfusion was described in the 17th century, although there was no way to safely store blood, screen blood for diseases or match blood types in the 17th century. Jesus obviously wasn't referring to channeling a person's blood to someone else as a means of salvation. There's very little sacrifice involved in such a procedure. There would be more sacrifice in giving up a vital organ to someone on a long waiting list for an organ transplant, but that's not the message Jesus was conveying either in John 15:13.

John 6:51-56 is obviously speaking in illustrative terms. "So the disciples came up and said to him: “Why is it you speak to them by the use of illustrations?” In reply he said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted." (Matthew 13:10-11)

John 6:35, 40 clearly indicates that the eating and drinking would be done by exercising faith in Jesus Christ. Since the Eucharistic transubstantiation: flesh and blood ritual is a principal rite of the Catholic Church, one might expect the Scriptures to support it. They do not. The Catholic Encyclopedia (1913 edition) explained why: “The chief source of our doctrine . . . is tradition, which from the earliest times declares the impetratory [entreating] value of the Sacrifice of the Mass.”

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/document/protocol.shtml

Only validly ordained priests can preside at the Eucharist and consecrate the bread and the wine so that they become the Body and Blood of the Lord. (1411)

I'd say it's better for Catholics that the miracle can't be performed by an ordained priest because eating anything turned into human blood and flesh once a week would probably make you ill after a while. What was stated in Matthew 9:13, Matthew 12:2-7 and Matthew 23:23 was to men that constantly tried to trap Jesus in his speech. "Then the Pharisees went their way and took counsel together in order to trap him in his speech." (Matthew 22:15) Jesus replaced animal sacrifices as atonement for sin when he replaced the Mosaic law covenant. The Law covenant became in a sense “obsolete” when God announced by means of the prophet Jeremiah that there would be a new covenant. In 33 C.E. the Law covenant was canceled on the basis of Christ’s death (Collisions 2:14), the New Testament replacing it. Observing the sabbath and animal sacrifices were part of the law covenant under Moses, but the astonishment about abstaining from blood was reaffirmed in Acts 15:20, so what does Matthew 9:13, Matthew 12:2-7 or Matthew 23:23 have to with Acts 15:20?

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209

My Family

by alice.in.wonderland in

15 years ago

to those that have accused me of insensitivity about abuse:.

my father and his brother and sisters were raised by a man who became rich in the 1950s.

he owned a construction company during a housing boom in a metropolitan area.

15 years ago

alice.in.wonderland 15 years ago

"You have got no moral high ground to look down on us from. You gave that away when you suggested Shamus should top himself.

I saw the post and pic too."

There's lurid imagery here depicting Jehovah's Witnesses:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/179583/1/Apostate-Artwork

The pic was in response to Shamus's profanity and a post a lot like the one he posted in this thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/198142/4/Protect-The-Flock-Letter-From-1980

If you notice, I don't respond with that type of thing now.

I had a temporary response to adults that act like imbeciles when initially I participated here, but I've adjusted to those having a mental age of from three to seven years and are unfortunately capable of some degree of communication. The pic is old news. Time to move on. The forum is supposed be fun; "The place to discuss anything relating to Jehovah's Witnesses and the WatchTower Bible and Tract Society... or just make new friends!" This back and forth crapola is not fun.

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209

My Family

by alice.in.wonderland in

15 years ago

to those that have accused me of insensitivity about abuse:.

my father and his brother and sisters were raised by a man who became rich in the 1950s.

he owned a construction company during a housing boom in a metropolitan area.

15 years ago

alice.in.wonderland 15 years ago

"The thread should be renamed: If you want to know how crazy and non-sensical Alice (or Rachel or whatever she goes by nowadays) then read!"

brotherdan, (you who claim to be a Bible based Christian) if someone matches the below description, like anything they say really means anything;

As for you, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, how they used to say to you: “In the last time there will be ridiculers, proceeding according to their own desires for ungodly things.” These are the ones that make separations, animalistic [men], not having spirituality. But you, beloved ones, by building up yourselves on your most holy faith, and praying with holy spirit, keep yourselves in God’s love, while you are waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting life in view. Also, continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; save [them] by snatching [them] out of the fire. But continue showing mercy to others, doing so with fear, while you hate even the inner garment that has been stained by the flesh. Jude 17-23

But now really put them all away from you, wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk out of your mouth. Do not be lying to one another. Strip off the old personality with its practices, and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it. Colossians 3:5-10

I knew someone would come along and drop a bunch of garbage on this thread. If you condone the hate-speech, the "cult" rhetoric that you try and push off on others is nothing but ridicule. The Bible speaks on numerous occasions of the utter rejection of Jehovah and examples of those that have made irreversible decisions towards this end. If someone fits this description, it's not crazy to take that into consideration. The problem is with them, not Jehovah's Witnesses.

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209

My Family

by alice.in.wonderland in

15 years ago

to those that have accused me of insensitivity about abuse:.

my father and his brother and sisters were raised by a man who became rich in the 1950s.

he owned a construction company during a housing boom in a metropolitan area.

15 years ago

alice.in.wonderland 15 years ago

"This statement actually explains alot. You were taught at a very young age to ignore the obvious, lie about it and say 'it never happened.' A theme which you have obviously carried over into adulthood and have demonstrated on this very board. You have been shown plenty of evidence that child abuse has and does go on in the Organization. You've heard first hand accounts of it from people like St. Ann, Lady Lee and Avashai. Yet because your JW father taught to you lie and ignore the obvious (even when it's staring you straight in the face), you're simply carrying on a very bad habit and are trying to foister your lies onto others by either ignoring their posts, or insinuating that they must not be telling the whole story and that the Organization really hasn't covered anything up.
In other words, dear old dad turned you into a pathological liar. How many of the following best describes Alice:
•Lies when it is very easy to tell the truth.
•Lies to get sympathy, to look better, to save their butt, etc.
•Fools people at first but once they get to know him, no one believes anything they ever say.
•May have a personality disorder.
•Extremely manipulative.
•Has been caught in lies repeatedly.
•Never fesses up to the lies.
•Is a legend in their own mind
Perhaps you should spend less time on here Alice, and spend a bit more time seeking professional help with your problems."

So you acknowledge that I told the truth about something in my family, but at the same time I lie. Your accusation(s) are utterly false and to top off you pathologically lie without any underlying reason so there's evidently something much worse involved. You say I'm “extremely manipulative” while at the same time using something personal I shared as a tool for manipulation. You dishonor your brother in law's death by claiming it was “cult related.” That being case, I don't expect any less from you. If you really believed I was in a cult, you wouldn't include the hate speech anymore than if I was a Scientologist or a Mormon. I think you know your closed mind and hateful attitude towards Jehovah's Witnesses is completely uncalled for so there's no professional or anyone else that can help those that reject God’s Kingdom and revile Jehovah’s name. Your diseased, ulcerous condition is laid bare.

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