Posts by SweetBabyCheezits

83

Did Jesus sacrifice really mean anything?

by highdose in

suspending for a minute the realisation that it never happened and instead looking at it as a beliver would.... jesus had to endure a painful death, yes.

but he knew that he would only be dead for three days and that afterwards he would get reserected and be able to mind f**k around with those who had put him to death.

and then he would live for ever in a brand new body!

SweetBabyCheezits

Tec: SBC, what if this topic had absolutely nothing to do with Christ or God or christianity. What if it was just a theoretical discussion about various morality/justice and their pros and cons, in various cultures and time periods. Would you be approaching this subject with a different feeling if that were the case?

Absolutely. And by the same token, if JWs were just a secular group and had no ties to god or Christianity, I probably wouldn't be so vocal in opposing them either. But it is their claim to authority that makes them so potent. Without that claim, they would be powerless.

When a book, group, or person makes claims of special knowledge or connection to the "supreme power" in the universe, he/she/it/they deserve to be scrutinized accordlingly.

39

I want to repeat this personal experience

by cptkirk in

no need to go into details (if you want details then i'll give more) but just for the sake of brevity, i will state it succinctly.

i just want to also note, this is not even one of crazier things i've seen with these people.

i was at a meeting for field service ok...you know how they will have one guy take the group out, and he will ask questions about presentations and things like that right?

SweetBabyCheezits

kirk: so please please i beg you help me...where did i lose coherence

I'd say somewhere in the neigborhood of the third thread you ever started.

83

Did Jesus sacrifice really mean anything?

by highdose in

suspending for a minute the realisation that it never happened and instead looking at it as a beliver would.... jesus had to endure a painful death, yes.

but he knew that he would only be dead for three days and that afterwards he would get reserected and be able to mind f**k around with those who had put him to death.

and then he would live for ever in a brand new body!

SweetBabyCheezits

Cofty: But these always depend on being able to fool the person who ultimately dispenses justice. No judge who cared about justice would knowingly go along with this sort of pantomime.

TEC: No judge in our culture or legal system anyway. Which was kind of my point, that others might think differently.

I concede that others do think differently, especially those guided by bronze age morals vs those who are guided by a sense of empathy. We have a record of several contrasting perceptions of justice in the Bible alone. For example, in the NT we have one standard of justice: Love your enemy, turn the other cheek, etc... Whereas in the OT, a completely different standard of justice: eye for an eye, numerous commands to kill the enemy, burn the enemy, stone a disrespectful child, etc...

Looking at the wild polarization of standards here, I retract my previous arguments. It's really no surprise that BibleGod's idea of justice is a moving target.

71

Do you have an interest in Evolution?

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

would you like to know where to start and what books to read?.

feel free to ask any questions about evolution.

it concerns me that a minority of people who admit not reading the theory or it's evidence, muddy the waters of this forum with their gut feelings and ignorant self experiments.

SweetBabyCheezits

N.Drew: Anal bothers me.

Have you discussed this with your partner?

36

University after leaving the Watchtower?

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

hello, you sexy sassy posters of jwn.

i'm starting this thread in the hopes of finding... uh, hope.... and sharing it with others who are in a similar boat.

i'm looking for input from anyone who meets the following criteria:.

SweetBabyCheezits

Snare, I love to hear about exBethelites ditching the WT and going back to school. And you're absolutely right - setting an example for my kids was one of the reasons I want to go before they're out of the house instead of waiting.

That's a pretty damned inspiring narrative, JH! It sounds genuinely fulfilling. Of course, Sesame Street is more thought-provoking than the "theocratic education" provided by the WTF Society. (Though in both cases you know someone has a hand up a puppet's ass.)

My wife and I are both looking forward to getting back to school now that we have a new perspective on secular education. It's just a matter of when.

36

University after leaving the Watchtower?

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

hello, you sexy sassy posters of jwn.

i'm starting this thread in the hopes of finding... uh, hope.... and sharing it with others who are in a similar boat.

i'm looking for input from anyone who meets the following criteria:.

SweetBabyCheezits

Thank you, Maksym, Billy, ND, Nugget, DC, 2T, FA, and everyone else who shared their stories!

I'm still trying to figure out if I can make it work while our kids are young. If not, I'll be going back after they're out of school, getting a very informal education in the meantime. Like you guys, though, I want all the benefits, knowledge, experience, debt, and sense of accomplishment that go with earning a degree.

For those who like educational stuff and own an "iWhatever", if you haven't checked out the free iTunes U app, I highly recommend it.. You can download entire semester courses on some subjects and video/audio of lectures from Yale, Stanford, Berkley, MIT, Duke, Carnegie-Melon, etc... no charge. Good stuff. And yes you could probably get the same video/audio other places, too, this just seems to be well organized and easily accessible. Plus the Course Materials downloads are sweet (but not available for many public classes). I'm going through Yale's Psych 110 lectures right now and loving it.

36

Confirmation bias as observed in brain scans

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

i thought this was an interesting study, considering the mental block that affects jws when discussing wt flip-flops or bible contradictions.. .

http://www.michaelshermer.com/2006/07/the-political-brain/.

a recent brain-imaging study shows that our political predilections are a product of unconscious confirmation biasthe human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion ... draws all things else to support and agree with it.

SweetBabyCheezits

SBC: I'm just amazed at how quickly my fellow armchair scientists feel qualified to shoot down PhDs who have lengthy experience in their fields.

James Woods: That is my critical thinking at work.

Perhaps but I wanted to be sure you weren't confusing skepticism out of ignorance - which I've been guilty of - with critical thinking. Anyone can shout bullshit! from the bleachers and call it critical thinking.

James Woods: Sorry, but nobody (and I do mean NOBODY - PhD or not) can tell what somebody is thinking from an MRI or other brain scan.

Nobody claimed to know what the subjects were thinking, nor did they claim the implications of this study were cold hard facts. They were studying which PARTS of the brain were active and inactive when subjects processed specific statements. To quote the Abstract from this study:

"Motivated reasoning was associated with activations of the ventromedial prefrontal cortex, anterior cingulate cortex, posterior cingulate cortex, insular cortex, and lateral orbital cortex. As predicted, motivated reasoning was not associated with neural activity in regions previously linked to cold reasoning tasks and conscious (explicit) emotion regulation. The findings provide the first neuroimaging evidence for phenomena variously described as motivated reasoning, implicit emotion regulation, and psychological defense. They suggest that motivated reasoning is qualitatively distinct from reasoning when people do not have a strong emotional stake in the conclusions reached."

James Woods: We simply do not have that level of technology - it is akin to claiming that a gypsy lady can read your mind or tell your future.

Right, that's a great comparison because we all know that gypsy ladies have made amazing strides in neuroscience recently, haven't they?

36

Confirmation bias as observed in brain scans

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

i thought this was an interesting study, considering the mental block that affects jws when discussing wt flip-flops or bible contradictions.. .

http://www.michaelshermer.com/2006/07/the-political-brain/.

a recent brain-imaging study shows that our political predilections are a product of unconscious confirmation biasthe human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion ... draws all things else to support and agree with it.

SweetBabyCheezits

James Woods: What I am simply saying is that [critical thinking] does not automatically result in positive morality.

SBC: And I'm just saying that Ferraris are slow-ass sports cars if we take away the tires.

James Woods: It does not take much critical thinking to come to that conclusion. It does not require much critical thinking to realize that this statement is off-topic, either.

Ah but it illustrates my point, James. I see it went over your head so I'll spell it out again: To say "critical thinking (without a positive ethical or moral guideline) does not necessarily improve a person, or society" is like removing the tires on a Ferrari and complaining that it's too damn slow.

Ferrari tires are to Ferrari as ethical practice is to critical thinking.

In other words you are unfairly diminishing the value of critical thinking simply because you fail to see critical thinking as an ETHICAL PRACTICE IN ITS OWN RIGHT. But, no, a dictionary doesn't clarify that.

Fowler, Martin, 1951-
The ethical practice of critical thinking
p. cm.
Includes bibliographical references and index.
ISBN 10: 1-59460-503-3
ISBN 13: 978-1-59460-503-1 (alk. paper)
1. Critical thinking. 2. Reasoning. 3. Ethics. I. Title.

83

Did Jesus sacrifice really mean anything?

by highdose in

suspending for a minute the realisation that it never happened and instead looking at it as a beliver would.... jesus had to endure a painful death, yes.

but he knew that he would only be dead for three days and that afterwards he would get reserected and be able to mind f**k around with those who had put him to death.

and then he would live for ever in a brand new body!

SweetBabyCheezits

Tammy: I wasn't comparing them, SBC. I was just trying to open up another view; consider the possibility of something else... sometimes the truth lies between two extremes.

Tammy, I know I get plenty of things dead wrong, but with all due respect, you have this innate ability to build an argument on legs of rickety logic and then, when someone points out the fallacy, suggest the idea should stand on it's own merit, completely ignoring the void that exists where the rickety legs once stood. And I hate to say that because you seem to be such a genuine poster with the best intentions.

Simply put: I disagree that true justice would permit an innocent volunteer to stand in place of a guilty felon, regardless of how noble or courageous the request may be.

Tammy: The world is a lot bigger then our experiences of it, and our culture. Its not easy to consider such a foreign concept; you have to step back a bit from the things you believe are right. But aren't you the one who started that confirmation bias thread?

That's right. That's why I ran my cherished beliefs and hopes (everlasting paradise) through the same meat grinder that I ran others' beliefs. That's why I got out of a cult, despite the fear - and reality - I'd lose my friends and family. That's also why I now welcome friends who are gay and I support equal rights, despite previously being homophobic due to strong prejudices from upbringing and living in the south. That's why I'm reading a book on sociocentrism and questioning my old views, even when it's something I really enjoy, like eating a nice juicy steak or chicken breast. (I'm still debating that one.)

To me, these are tangible results of using some critical thinking to suppress my own biases, though not to a degree I would like. Does that mean it's easy sailing for me now? No, since it's part of our nature, I know I'll always struggle with bias. But as long as I have the memory of my family disowning me because they failed to use critical thinking, I'll have the motivation to keep fighting bias.

Please refresh my memory, Tammy - were you ever a JW?

36

Confirmation bias as observed in brain scans

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

i thought this was an interesting study, considering the mental block that affects jws when discussing wt flip-flops or bible contradictions.. .

http://www.michaelshermer.com/2006/07/the-political-brain/.

a recent brain-imaging study shows that our political predilections are a product of unconscious confirmation biasthe human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion ... draws all things else to support and agree with it.

SweetBabyCheezits

Look, SBC - I know what critical thinking is.

Yes, of course, you read it in a dictionary.

What I am simply saying is that it does not automatically result in positive morality.

And I'm just saying that Ferraris are slow-ass sports cars if we take away the tires.

I am further saying that current brain scan technology cannot possibly ascertain whether or not a person is doing critical thinking.

I realize you were probably James Woods, neuroscientist, in another life - capable of debating the likes of Sam Harris - but back in this world, you are James Woods, fellow JWN poster and debater extraordinaire. I'm just amazed at how quickly my fellow armchair scientists feel qualified to shoot down PhDs who have lengthy experience in their fields. I'm much more impressed when two equally qualified scientists debate each other.

Specifically, which parts of this study do you object to exactly? The methodology used to acquire the data, the results themselves (indicating which parts of the brain were active), the interpretation of those results, or the more colorful article that Shermer wrote to share his conclusions?