SweetBabyCheezits

Joined

• started 92 topics
• posted 2,496 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by SweetBabyCheezits

• 
  200

  Demons and the WTS

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i remember growing up and hearing all sorts of stories about demonic activity from people.

  some would be experiences that people had going door to door and visiting a "witch" or "warlock".

  some would inadvertently go to a fortune tellers door and have a demonic experience.. i was always facinated by all the stories.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  WW, great questions. That'd make for a good double blind test.
• 
  200

  Demons and the WTS

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i remember growing up and hearing all sorts of stories about demonic activity from people.

  some would be experiences that people had going door to door and visiting a "witch" or "warlock".

  some would inadvertently go to a fortune tellers door and have a demonic experience.. i was always facinated by all the stories.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  I think we have enough proof of holy spirit and Gods full revelation and there is no need for more of it today.

  Proof or faith? I'd really like more proof, please. Some good, testable proof of holy spirit. Hell, I'd take proof of demons even. (And not someone's video footage of crap flying off a table or some claimed exorcism in South America.) I would demand exactly the same proof of a sasquatch or Nessie sighting.

  BD, what do you consider to be proof of holy spirit? I'm not trying to stir anything up but I am curious.
• 
  149

  NOW how do you view the Future?

  by theMadJW in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  Seen "Deviloution" at our site?

  I tried to visit your site but my company has a bullshit filter on the network that keeps blocking it.
• 
  149

  NOW how do you view the Future?

  by theMadJW in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  SBC: where do you stand on the concept of evolution being used in a "divinely-appointed" process?

  MJW: Only to an extent, SBC- whereas it looks like He DID experiment, Genesis shows a direct creation of man, and I think the ever imaginative fantasy of "evolutionary man'" hilarious- and VERY creative, but untrue.

  To what extent? Which parts of evolution do you believe?

  So you consider the evolution of man to be an "ever imaginative fantasy... hilarious- and VERY creative..." but you don't hesitate to accept a talking snake, a global flood sent by god that kills innocent children and babies (with no hope for their resurrection), a man living in a fish for three days, a virgin conception, a woman who spontaneously turns into a pillar of salt, a prophet who gets insulted and calls two she-bears to maul 42 kids, etc....?
• 
  149

  NOW how do you view the Future?

  by theMadJW in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  I gues "assert" has different definitions to different people.

  Mr. Webster says: v, 1: to state or declare positively and often forcefully or aggressively

  I stated that the argument from complexity is flawed and cannot be used to assert anything. Do I really have to explain this? Why would anyone cling to refuted logic to try to prove something. Another argument might work but that one does not. But technically I suppose you could assert that a circle is really a square so I stand corrected.

  I assert I know what the Bible really teaches- REALLY! heh- and can prove it by referring to appropiate scriptures that build a picture on the subject.

  To convince me of anything, I'd first need evidence that the bible was from god, infallible AND inerrant.

  Even using only WTBTS publications, I see that's not the case. One example: the use of "Jehovah" in the "Christian Greek Scriptures" of the NWT. The Society claims to properly restore the divine name where it had been removed from manuscripts by the apostate church. Mad, if I was the Devil and I wanted to corrupt the scriptures, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't just swap the name of my arch nemesis with a title and stop there. At any rate, how do you put faith in a book that's supposedly inerrant, yet you know it's been tampered with, corrupted? What makes you so certain that it's god's word anyway?

  I assert there is a Maker because of how everything, from sub-atomic particles making atoms, molecules, cells into living things that have JUST the right type of bodies to survive in the environment it is in, which is part of an Ecosystem with all the right elements- are all work together. Then expand OUT!

  I felt the same way before I examined natural selection. It very cleanly explains why living things have JUST the right type of bodies to survive in their environment.

  Ever see an explosion where the particles settle into organization?

  The watch-parts-in-a-box argument was refuted yesterday. I also haven't seen god create man out of dust.

  We have it with the Solar System; planets in PERFECT orbits (altho scientist theorize that millions of years (who can argue with THAT?) later, one planet may be pulled into the sun, or the sun will go nova, or...... the beat goes on.

  Ever study how even the tilt of the axis on earth is crucila to life?????

  Yeah, I used that point in my talk on Creation years ago. Fascinating, but doesn't prove a creator.

  But then- YOU are the Authority on Science.

  That's absurd. I'm cutting my teeth on a subject in which I'll never understand .00000001%. But, unlike you, faith does not require me to "be right." So I can admit that I'm ignorant and have the intellectual honesty to put bias aside and continue my search without fearing a bipolar god will punish me by with-holding some magnificent post-apocalyptic reward.

  Choose wisely how you look at the facts- and what conclusions you drawn from them.

  Google the scientific method and critical thinking. Removing bias is very important in establishing any judgment. Think of a jury selection process and the efforts to eliminate potential jurors who may have bias from the pool.

  What is your method to ensure there's no self-deception or prejudice interfering with your review of facts... and the conclusions you draw from them?

  I tire of this discussion; it's worse that religious debates; at least the Bible is common ground with 'Christians'! With science, one only has a limited number of facts on a subject, many theories (many STATED as 'fact'), and the opinion of scientists often slanting their research to get funding.

  Translation: "I start threads and sometimes I try to piss people off but this one isn't going so well. I don't know the first thing about science and evolution so I can't really build a good case against it. My logic seems solid at first but these people keep exposing holes in my fallacious arguments. I don't WANT to educate myself on anything else but they keep trying to get me to think different than I'm used to. There's too much reason and logic in this thread. No matter. I believe what I believe, dammit. And I want to go back to discussing beliefs based on FAITH. I should probably throw out a red herring now to make science appear corrupt and biased because, while fundamentalists are wrong, they've got good anti-science propaganda."
• 
  149

  NOW how do you view the Future?

  by theMadJW in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  MJW, where do you stand on the concept of evolution being used in a "divinely-appointed" process? I mean, would you consider the possibility of a "god" who created life but then allowed life forms to evolve over millions of years? Or do you reject all scientific evidence of evolution entirely?
• 
  149

  NOW how do you view the Future?

  by theMadJW in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  MJW: I thought I DID answer your questions; LOGIC shows that the brain is EVIDENCE of DESIGN, since science rightfully describes it as the most complex MECHANISM in the universe- and it's coordinated links to all the systems and its functions reveal it further.

  Okay, substitute "Maker" for "brain" in your above statement and re-read it.

  A god that created the "most complex mechanism in the universe" must be even MORE complex than the human brain, right? But you'll make an exception to your own rules of logic in God's case? All I'm saying is that the argument from complexity is flawed and cannot be used to assert anything. You can keep repeating the same logic but it means nothing because we've exposed the flaw of "special pleading." You haven't given a decent answer because you can't. And that's not a slam against you personally, but against that particular argument, which has been used by others and refuted just the same.

  That is one reason I can't just brush off evolution. Another, as I've admitted already, is that I'm still relatively ignorant about the subject itself. In fact, I've discovered that most of what I thought I knew about evolution were really misconceptions that I'd adopted from other ignorant people.

  But what persuades me most to look into evolution is that I am familiar with the scientific method and critical thinking, requirements for scientific research and discovery. Scientific theories must all pass through the same meat-grinder of scrutiny. The same cannot be said of religious doctrine.
• 
  149

  NOW how do you view the Future?

  by theMadJW in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  Do you have to be a scientist to believe things firmly? What about a religious person?

  In matters of religion, faith patches over holes in the logic of cherished beliefs.

  In science, one works hard to avoid holding cherished beliefs so as to keep bias from corrupting judgment. (Hence, double blind tests.) Questioning and critical thinking are used to SEEK holes in theories and expose them. Science, therefore, is a search for truth without bias. It welcomes evidence (not conjecture) for anything that might disprove a theory.

  As far as your "firm believer" comment, I think you're exaggerating in an attempt to win points for a deconversion.

  Just how many facts does one need to know to be convinced of ANYTHING?

  For a JW, you only need one fact: the fact that the WTBTS puts something in print. That makes it "truth."

  For those who don't rely on the GB to think for them, though, it takes much more than that. A good rule of thumb I agree with is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you tell me you ate a ham sandwich for lunch today, I have no reason to question you. There's nothing extraordinary about that. But if you tell me you witnessed a bald eagle swoop down and snatch a full grown man and carry him up into the clouds, I'd be highly skeptical. I would not believe you until you provided some hard evidence.

  Uncountable TRILLIONS of cells forming elaborate SYSTEMS that work TOGETHER performing timed FUNCTIONS in concert screams design- if you want to attribute it to chance ...'Natural Selection' be my guest...but if you are as intelligent as I THINK you are, you know better- wether you admit it or not.

  I already told you I'm not ruling out intelligent design as a possibility. But I've suspended judgment in either direction until I've done adequate research on the evolution front. Why? A couple of reasons: 1) I recognize that I've always had a preconceived opinion on evolution and 2) I'm not so arrogant as to think I'm smarter than the scientific community. (You might try a little intellectual humility yourself.)

  “The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived opinion, by prejudice.” - Arthur Schopenhauer

  “Let go of your attachment to being right, and suddenly your mind is more open. You're able to benefit from the unique viewpoints of others, without being crippled by your own judgment." -Ralph Marston

  By the way, the questions based on your rules of logic that I asked earlier remain unanswered. Can you stick with your rules of logic and give me anything besides strawman arguments?

  • If, as a rule of logic, 'all living things are so complex that they MUST have had a Maker' then where did that Maker come from?
  • Or if you can make an exception that an incomprehensibly complex spirit did not need a designer, why could you not say the same for the incomprehensibly complex universe?
• 
  200

  Demons and the WTS

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i remember growing up and hearing all sorts of stories about demonic activity from people.

  some would be experiences that people had going door to door and visiting a "witch" or "warlock".

  some would inadvertently go to a fortune tellers door and have a demonic experience.. i was always facinated by all the stories.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  ^ genuine lol, LDUH. That's good stuff.
• 
  149

  NOW how do you view the Future?

  by theMadJW in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  Also, your god at one time required men to cut off the tips of their penii(?) but science has "GOOFY" articles? Just want to make sure I understand you right.