Posts by SweetBabyCheezits

62

Back from New Orleans, ready for DF announcement!

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

[click here for a little history...].

mission accomplished!

my wife and i held off the announcement and were able to attend my bil's wedding & reception this past weekend.

SweetBabyCheezits

Thanks, CJ, George, LWT, and ataloa.

Yeah, LWT, I've had some rare, short moments of this odd intense anger (the only time I've cried about this BS) but it isn't directed at anyone in particular. It's crazy.

I don't blame my JW family. I don't blame the elders. Haven't really blamed the old codgers on the GB even. (Though in one of those rare moments, I gave a dead Rutherford a good cursing because I needed a face to put with my anger. Yeah, it was ridiculous.)

I have a certain anger towards abstract things like religion and superstition but that doesn't give me any relief.

I've grown to detest the bible, because of how people use it and because it CAN be used in such a way, despite the fact that it was supposedly authored by an omniscient being. So, unfortunately, sometimes I feel a kind of anger ... well, maybe frustration is a better word.... towards people in general who put so much faith in "holy books"... not really individuals.

(Sorry, believers, but for many, faith trumps reason and my parents value their faith over our relationship. Since it seems all traditional faith boils down to the same particles - trust in an deity - it's hard to isolate one from the next.)

17

Been There, Done That, Please Shut Up!

by metatron in

jw
friends

i read a ton of posts on this site that basically follow the same form: somebody has an argument with a close relative about the "truth" and long, angry e-mails follow thereafter - or heated phone calls - or face to face conversations - and the kitchen sink gets thrown into the mix.. you name it: child molestation, 1914, false prophecy, everything and anything that comes to mind.. no, no, no!

unless you are really committed to losing your witless family or friends, don't hit them with both barrels while you are angry and upset about a lifetime of being duped by the 'truth'.. here's a piece of ancient wisdom - and it applies regardless of whether you are a an agnostic or atheist:.

"i have many things yet to say to you but you are not able to bear them at present" john 16:12. yes, that principle of gradualism still works with people.

SweetBabyCheezits

Your advice is priceless. I wish that every new member automatically received that advice in a PM when they first logged in. It's really hard when you get bombarded with "Don't you care about your family?!" to keep your mouth shut.

Also in that email, there need to be rules of thumb for fading quietly:

Trust no one in the org. They are zombies who have lost thinking ability.
Never email anything even remotely critical of the society, JWs, or doctrine.
Don't answer the door or phone if you suspect an elder is on the other side.
"Fade" is the key word. It's gradual. Dropping off all meetings at once is not subtle.

These are just lessons I learned the hard way even though that advice is in different places all over the forum. I'll shut up now.

62

Back from New Orleans, ready for DF announcement!

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

[click here for a little history...].

mission accomplished!

my wife and i held off the announcement and were able to attend my bil's wedding & reception this past weekend.

SweetBabyCheezits

For the record, we do still love and respect the men who were on our committee. I don't hold them responsible for all of this. I consider them, more or less, mentally challenged... not in a derogatory way, but just for the fact that they cannot think for themselves.

I've lost a bit of respect for my dad, though. While these elders are a little bit removed from the situation, the excuses I make for my dad have diminished greatly. I'm his son, his flesh and blood. I stopped by my parents' house last night to say goodbye and made one last attempt to appeal to his logic. Nothing. In fact, he turned into a total hardass.

He told me he thought we'd already been through the "goodbye" two or three times. "How many times are we gonna do this?" I was shocked but I looked him in the eye and sarcastically said, "yeah, what was I thinking?! I mean we'll probably never talk again but that's no reason to keep saying goodbyes while we've got the chance. That's just ignorant." He said if he'd known that I wasn't going to respond to the elders, he would've turned in my emails months earlier.

So I said goodbye to my mom and gave her a hug. When I gave my dad a hug, he didn't hug back at all. Total rejection. Then he points to my mom, who's now bawling, and says, "This is who I need to hug. Because I'm gonna have to live with her!"

Anyways, my goodbyes are almost complete. My wife has almost finished all her goodbyes as well. We've visited family, sent emails, made phone calls. I'm going to call my elder brother this evening to say goodbye and then I'm supposed to get together with a few JW buddies tomorrow night. I've got three JW buddies at work that I'll talk to and that should do it. And then D-day is Tuesday.

62

Back from New Orleans, ready for DF announcement!

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

[click here for a little history...].

mission accomplished!

my wife and i held off the announcement and were able to attend my bil's wedding & reception this past weekend.

SweetBabyCheezits

[following a formal greeting....]

My wife and I both want to express our appreciation for the love and concern that you've shown for our family. Please understand that we have no issues with you or any individual members of the congregation. We don't doubt that you have good intentions, regardless of our difference in perspective. We believe the consequences of our disfellowshipping are unfair but we still have the same love and respect for you that we had before.

I realize you think that my doubts are to blame and I do not deny that questions started me on the path to disbelief. But doubt and reason are the enemies of any faith, not just Jehovah's Witnesses. A person's faith patches over the holes in the fabric of their religious belief. The stronger the faith, the bigger the holes it can cover. But during my study and research through the years, those holes grew in number and in size until my faith was no longer sufficient to patch them. I then realized that my old rationalizations - which I adopted from the Society - were just a denial of reality.

Most religions claim a favored position with God - it's been the hallmark of religions down through history. A better awareness of this history and countless worldwide faiths has helped us see that for kids of any faith to believe they were lucky enough to simply be born into the right religion... is a fallacy. For those who convert to Jehovah's Witnesses - or any other Christian religion - as adults.... well, I wouldn't presume this is always the case but I see individuals who clearly needed some kind of faith (direction) to help them get their lives in order because a particular aspect was out of control.

We have no regrets in seeking unbiased truth. This is not a journey that we set out on for personal gain or freedom to commit acts forbidden by the Society (although freedom of thought and decision is now something we don't take for granted). We were disappointed that our search didn't lead us back to the Society. But true critical thinking (not negative, but reflective) requires a person to question their most cherished beliefs... to eliminate bias and see the world without the tinted glasses we were given at birth. I believe that a lack of critical thinking explains why so many religions proliferate. Children accept their parents' beliefs at a young age (when they're most naive) and fail to question what they were always taught. This cycle is perpetual. Devout people in ALL religions believe they are unique. Everyone else is wrong and they can prove it from their understanding of their holy book. Jehovah's Witnesses, while unique in some doctrine, are no different than any other religion in that respect. I agree with Rutherford when he said, "Religion is a snare and a racket!" (Far more plausible than his "Millions Now Living Will Never Die!")

My wife and I take responsibility for our actions and we don't want pity from anyone. But it is a shame that a young man and woman could be raised to believe a certain way, expected to dedicate their lives to a particular deity, and fulfill their parents' desire only to realize (upon growing old enough to ask rational questions) that they will lose their family if they cannot accept some of those doctrine(s) at face value. While I was investigated for emailing some of my views to my parents, my wife is being disfellowshipped for simply having a different perspective. (The term "thoughtcrime" is a good parallel in the classic novel Nineteen Eighty Four.) I think it's best summed up with this quote:
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”

It's clear that unity takes priority over seeking truth.... and adherence to rules and regulations comes ahead of love (though, ironically, you believe this to be loving discipline). As you stated, we are charged with apostasy which according to the chairman, "can simply be a turning away from religious beliefs that you once held. Apostasy means that you renounce some of the teachings of the religion you were associated with." (verbatim)

We still appreciate many principles and values that the Watchtower Society gleans from the Bible and we intend to continue teaching many of these to our children. But when I put aside the presupposition that I adopted from my parents and start basing my views on unbiased facts, I find no proof of the Organization being directed by any holy spirit.

The original committee's decision has been made and we expect it will be upheld by the Appeal Committee as well. We do not deny that we hold different views from the Watchtower Society. That being the case, there is no need to continue with the appeal hearing scheduled for Sunday, October 17.

Best regards to all,

Mr. & Mrs. SweetBabyCheezits

62

Back from New Orleans, ready for DF announcement!

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

[click here for a little history...].

mission accomplished!

my wife and i held off the announcement and were able to attend my bil's wedding & reception this past weekend.

SweetBabyCheezits

Thanks for your words, Flipper, VB, Vamp, CJ, GLT, Sprout, Tweetie, SW, Billy, SD-7.

Cog, that is an awesome short story! Well played. I'll be thinking about that when I light up a stogie this Tuesday.

The appeal hearing was supposed to be today but we won't be attending. Instead I took a farewell letter to the chairman last night. I'll past it into the next post...

49

JWs REFUSE to Reason!

by brotherdan in

so last night my wife brought the situation up again and kept telling me how sorry i'm going to be for what i'm doing to our family.

i kept a mild attitude and tried to reason with her.. she refused!.

i went about it in the way that sweet baby cheezits recommended.

SweetBabyCheezits

^ That sounds like experience talking. Pretty damned insightful.

105

Ground Zero Mosque

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you agree that there should not be a mosque in the area that was wiped out by muslim extremists?

on the view, it was discussed with bill o'reilly and the ladies of the view.

joy behar and whoopie flipped because bill said "muslims" were responsible for the carnage there and it would not be appropriate for a mosque in that area.. what do you think?.

SweetBabyCheezits

Unfortunately Farkel, that is exactly what is probably going to happen because of all the bleeding hearts who feel that 'political correctness' and ensuring 'freedom of religion' for absolutely everyone (no matter how screwed up and violent their religion and culture are), comes first and foremost (even, apparently, common sense), while they continue to ignore all the warning signs. I guess 9-11 wasn't quite enough to convince some that Islam is not a 'religion of peace' but have no fear as I'm sure there will be many more demonstrations down the road.

It's not about political correctness. It's about not being ignorant and prejudice. How is the Koran any more violent than the Bible to someone who isn't familiar with the "rationalizations" of each one's moderate branch?

Again, radical, militant Muslim sects don't represent ALL of Islam anymore than JWs represent all of Christianity. Try to apply some critical thinking instead of eating up what the conservative media is feeding you. This is understandably an emotional subject and I think that's obscuring reason for some.

Terrorist groups are the problem. If Al-Qaeda wanted to set up meeting center at ground zero that would be atrocious. But Al-Qaeda does not equal Islam.

I'm antireligious and I detest the negative influence that millillenia-old holy books have on people. But at least religionists have an excuse for their ignorance. Those who break free from such superstitious bonds should exercise freedom of thought with a little less prejudice.

By the way, where's the line? Exactly how far away from ground zero is far enough?

45

To all those who who bang on elders who post here

by elderelite in

jw
friends

and had the audacity and hypocritical nerve to suggest that no elder could provide anything to this forum that couldn't be gotten else where, i started a thread a little over a day ago with a link that was entittled "ks 2010".

that link has been clicked on 1,156 times in a little over 24 hours.

thats almost once a minute every minute non stop.

SweetBabyCheezits

And yes that's a goddamn birthday cake and present. Suck it WT

lmao

ElderElite, you're my hero.

49

JWs REFUSE to Reason!

by brotherdan in

so last night my wife brought the situation up again and kept telling me how sorry i'm going to be for what i'm doing to our family.

i kept a mild attitude and tried to reason with her.. she refused!.

i went about it in the way that sweet baby cheezits recommended.

SweetBabyCheezits

Dan, I apologize for the advice on the Mormon parallel. These folks are right - your wife has all defenses up and reason has no influence. My wife had already been hearing my doubts for years before I used the Mormon analogy. She is ultimately the one who had to see things for herself.

I'm sorry I didn't consider that, I just wanted to help.

130

Are you interested in Bible Congruence?

by sabastious in

does the bible have to agree with itself for it to have lasting value?.

-sab.

SweetBabyCheezits

Sab: Yes to give us all the illusion that we are forgiven (because sin is a fabrication). So we'd all stop killing and "keep our eyes on the prize."

We're all mercenaries at heart.