JWs REFUSE to Reason!

brotherdan

So last night my wife brought the situation up again and kept telling me how sorry I'm going to be for what I'm doing to our family. I kept a mild attitude and tried to reason with her.

She REFUSED!

I went about it in the way that Sweet Baby Cheezits recommended. I copied some of what he said word for word. Here was my email to her:

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Could you PLEASE try to think of it like this:

Imagine you are a Mormon wife and mother that has started to become aware of inconsistencies and doctrinal problems within the church.

The Mormon wife will DEFINITELY see benefits of their faith: love, unity, strong bonds with fellow worshipers, strong families, high morals, etc...

But what if she realized that she could no longer conscientiously put faith in Joseph Smith's revelation, among other things? What would she do? Should she continue along as if nothing was wrong? Go with the flow to keep family and social ties intact? Or seek truth free from all bias?

What if she was born and raised a Mormon? How could this person possibly wake up to the reality that their beloved faith it wrong? Wouldn't it start with logic and reason?

Either way, this Mormon's journey out will be blocked by well-intentioned family and friends who sincerely believe that this wife/mother is making a terrible mistake. Mormon elders will try to encourage her to rethink her steps and they will rationalize EVERY doubt that she presents.

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She didn't respond. So later on in the day I texted her and asked if she had a chance to read the email. I'd like to share with you her response:

wife: hahaha it's funny how dumb u really think I am

me: I don't think your dumb at all! You are smarter than me in SO many ways!

wife: You must think I'm dumb. Who do you think you are talking to? Really it's like you think I will respond like a toddler.

me: I just wanted to get your thoughts on the situation. If you were a mormon and found out that it was false, would it be ok to leave? How is being a Witness any different? I can't serve God with a bothered conscience. I don't know why you would want me to

wife: Your just ridiculous! I'm so over this.

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It was interesting to see the mind block that Hassan talks about...It was sad too. She really is so smart. But with this situation, she just refuses to reason.

minimus

and you just realized this??

goldensky

Dear brotherdan, you were very patient and humble, and I admire you for that. I hope I'll react like you if ever I'm confronted to a situation similar to yours.

Markfromcali

She probably doesn't even recognize that she's just trying to protect her sense of self in terms of the JW identity. Rather than actually reasoning it becomes about ego.

It's really like the mind also dominates over the heart in a sense, so that she cannot or will not acknowledge your sincerity. Unfortunately once they know where you stand it's going to be that much harder because you yourself will be framed in terms of their belief system, rather than who you really are.

Mad Sweeney

I am glad you mentioned Hassan because he makes some good points in Releasing the Bonds that I thought of while reading your post. The mind block clearly was up.

Thing is, the mind block REMAINS UP for now. You HAVE TO STOP, Dan. Just wait. You're trying step three stuff on her when step one and two aren't completed. Patience and a long term view are crucial to the extrication method. You're pushing it and it's making things harder.

Just stop. Just wait. Just be a nice guy. For now, that is ALL you can do that won't make things worse. And this might last weeks or months before you can even discuss it again. SHE will bring it up when she is ready.

Another thing I noticed from RtB was that a LOT of what it takes to get someone out of the Borg simply can not be done by an ex-member. By being an ex-member, certain mental barriers are ALREADY UP and the ex-Dub can't tear them down. Trust-building is crucial and the cult member will not ever trust an ex-member. Non-members have a chance; ex-members are brought in after the others have laid the groundwork.

It could also be that your wife will not make ANY move away from the Borg unless and until it is her own idea. Quit trying to give her the idea. Quit even trying to get her to understand why you're doing what you're doing. Be a good man, a good husband, and a good father, and she'll eventually come around.

leavingwt

It was interesting to see the mind block that Hassan talks about...It was sad too. She really is so smart. But with this situation, she just refuses to reason.

Yes. Once the "cult personality" is triggered, the person will defend things that he or she really doesn't agree with, deep down.

As the months go by and she can see that you're NOT miserable and "sorry" for your actions, this will cause cognitive dissonance, which could be helpful in getting her closer to thinking for herself.

brotherdan

I haven't read the 2nd Hassan book. I'm just grasping in the dark at this point.

I KNOW I need to stop before I ruin things. I was just trying to appeal to her sense of reason. But it wasn't there...

bohm

Brotherdan -- when i wrote what your wife told you i began to think exactly what MadS. has said a lot more elegant than i would. She dont sound like someone you can reason with in any way. I think you should leave it for now, give her time. Your a good husband, and very patient to boot - give her time and i think you will eventually get somewhere.

updated:

I want to add i think your letter was excellent. When she is that condescending to such a nice letter, there is nothing to be done for now. I believe you that she is smart - let her realize for herself something is wrong when her bad behaviour is met with love.

Mad Sweeney

It won't be there for some time, Dan. Patience.

For what it's worth, Releasing the Bonds isn't as powerful (IMO) as CCMC was but it lays out a concrete plan for rescuing a loved one from a cult, and more importantly it explains why and how each part of Hassan's plan is important.

I don't believe one has to stick to the plan religiously (pardon the pun) but it's a good framework. Hit up a library and read it when you can.

Ding

It's not so much that she's refusing to reason with you on this, it's that she's incapable of doing so.

Why?

It's not because she's stupid.

It's because she's blind.

The Watchtower has blinded her (compare 2 Cor. 4:4).

Of course, telling her that would be counterproductive.

It seems to me you have two choices at this point.

Either get aggressive and play the headship and submission guilt card or back off as Mad Sweeney suggests.

I personally agree with Mad Sweeney because I think you have too much personal integrity to use Watchtower manipulation techniques.

On the other hand, maybe WT manipulatiion techniques is all she'll respond to.

JWs REFUSE to Reason!

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