Apparently he didn't like what I said because his response to me was deleted by Amazon. Tsk, tsk, tsk......That's certainly not showing the Christian spirit......
Posts by Mary
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27DISCUSSION WITH A JW; YOUR INPUT PLEASE...
by Mary ini'm 'talking' with a jw on another site who of course, does not believe that they are 'false prophets' and says that:.
"...prophetic inspiration and being filled with the spirit ( to use a common expression) do not mean the same thing.".
"...again the wts is using the term "prophet" in the basic sense of a spokesman.
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27
DISCUSSION WITH A JW; YOUR INPUT PLEASE...
by Mary ini'm 'talking' with a jw on another site who of course, does not believe that they are 'false prophets' and says that:.
"...prophetic inspiration and being filled with the spirit ( to use a common expression) do not mean the same thing.".
"...again the wts is using the term "prophet" in the basic sense of a spokesman.
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Mary
Ok, here is the latest conversation we've had. I took some of your suggestions and incorporated them into my reply. His comments are in the boxes:
"....Again the WTS is using the term "prophet" in the basic sense of a spokesman. ALL Christians when they speak or share from God's word are "prophets" in that basic sense...."
Sorry Paul, but the WTS does NOT get to pick and choose how they want to use a word, apply it to themselves without using the full meaning. A "prophet" is someone "...gifted at expositing divine truth" (Stongs) or "..an interpreter or forth-teller of the divine will" (NAS Exhaustive Concordance). Jehovah's Witnesses (most notably the leaders) have done this very thing from it's inception in the 1870's.
The Organization most definitely has said they were told directly from Jehovah, they HAVE said they speak for Jehovah, they HAVE claimed inspiration. They call themselves the Ezekiel class, the Jeremiah class etc. over the years, paralleling themselves with the prophets mentioned in the bible.
I'm not sure how old you are, but you should try checking the inside cover of the Awake! magazines before they changed the "Generation of 1914" doctrine in November 1995. Before that it specifically stated that:
"...Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."
Who did they say made this promise? It says right there in black and white that Jehovah made the promise. If that's not 'speaking for God', I don't know what is. And after that infamous WT article that wiped out a decades old belief with the stroke of a pen, they went and replaced it (apparently hoping noone would notice) with the following:
"...Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."
That says it all.
"...The term is NOT being used to describe a "Prophet" who has direct inspiration to reveal NEW things directly from God. This is consistently taught and we, Jehovah's Witnesses, know this and do NOT look at any man as a "Prophet" in the sense Mr Rhodes used it and you are seeing it...."
Surely you jest. Witnesses MUST view the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave' as getting all their info directly from Jehovah and Jesus. They teach that to question anything they say is paramount to "apostasy". I'm sure you are aware of this, but if you are not, please let me know and I will provide you with countless quotes from their literature showing that what I say is true.
"...Note; that is what ALL Christians do. "proclaim the divine message, urge others to believe in Christ", etc."
Um, Christians of all denominations do this and have been doing it for the past 2,000 years. Are you suggesting that all Christians of all denominations are 'prophets in the basic sense'?
"...Prophetic Inspiration and being filled with the Spirit ( to use a common expression) do NOT mean the same thing."
Then again, I ask you: If your leaders have no special "gift" of prophecy, then WHY are the rank and file Witnesses being told that they have to accept the "Slave's" version of what "truth" is, on pain of being disfellowshipped for apostasy if they state that they do not agree with what is being taught? Here's a good example:
The WTS has changed what "this generation" means several times (trying to justify it as being "new light" or "present truth"---something that is found nowhere in the bible). For decades they taught that the generation of 1914 would still be alive to see The End. It's now presently being taught that Jesus was "evidently" talking about an 'overlapping generation' (another laughable idea that is also found nowhere in the bible).
If I were a Witness and declared 20 years ago that I didn't believe the Generation of 1914 would be the ones to see The End, I would have been disfellowshipped for going against "the faithful and discreet slave", even though they were dead wrong. They change their doctrines back and forth back and forth, never with an apology to those who based many life decisions on what they were told, but with the arrogant attitude "well, we've changed it, too bad, just accept it and don't whine about it."
"...Being guided by God's spirit, which we should all pray for as we read and medicate on His word, is different than being inspired to Prophecy or foretell the future or give NEW Revelations not found in Scripture. We don't claim that."
So tell me Paul: How can someone have God's Holy Spirit on them, call themselves 'prophets' (even in the basic sense as you are trying to claim), tell people that The End is right around the corner for the past 130 years, print countless books and magazine that in fact, DO try to predict the future, but claim you don't call yourselves "prophets"? It's fairly obvious that the Organization is trying to have their cake and eat it too: 'We don't officially call ourselves prophets, but you have to treat us like we are.'
"...It is a created argument used by those who do not care what we say but wish to twist our words, so they can claim we are a false prophet."
Sorry to burst your bubble Paul, but you ARE, by biblical definition, 'false prophets'. Deuteronomy 18: 20-22 describes a false prophet this way:
"...However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him."
It's really quite simple: If someone predicts an event and claims that they are speaking for God, either the event will come true (proving that they are a true prophet), or it will not come true (proving that they are a false prophet), end of story. There is no allowance in the scriptures for anything else, no matter how well meaning someone may be.
Yet this is exactly what the Watchtower Society has tried to do. While admitting that they have "made mistakes" regarding future events, they gloss over what turned out to be "false predictions" by claiming `well, we've never lost faith or ceased to be watchful'----as though that some how excuses them for "speaking presumptuously". This concept is completely foreign in the scriptures as Jehovah has never said: "well, as long as you don't lose faith, I'll overlook your false prophesying". No, it simply says that if a prediction does not come true, then whoever predicted it constitutes a "false prophet."
If you like, I can provide you with countless examples of when the Organization predicted that something was going to happen and it didn't.
That's all I'm going to write tonight Paul. Tomorrow I will provide you with several quotes showing that the Organization has made specific predictions for Armageddon on certain dates.
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Tim Horton's
by Sic Semper Tyrannis ini have a question for my canadian friends here.
i go there often, and i see a tim hortons on pretty much every street, like mcdonalds is down here.
i've gone in to see what the fuss was all about, and all i saw were donuts and pastries i can find in every grocery store or gas station back home.
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Mary
Bottom line: We love our Timmy's coffee. I think Canadians are more dedicated to our daily cuppa java then our American cousins and if you're lucky enough to own a Tim Horton's franchise up here, you're looking at sales of well over $1,000,000/year.
I remember going over to Buffalo shopping once and we went to a Dunkin' Donuts for a coffee (as there were no Tim Horton's over there at that time). The place was filthy, the coffee tasted horrible and their donuts sucked.
wha happened said: what about that mediocre beer?
...Compared to what? That pony piss you guys call beer? Our beer rocks!
Actually, I like the Paradisio Medium brew at The Second Cup. It's even better than Timmy's. But their muffins and loafs suck....almost as bad as Dunkin' Donuts.....
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update on the forum
by Aussie Oz inexciting times.... son moved out of his jw home this week amid uproar from mother because he has follwed my advice about moving out and starting a new job.
visited him tonight in his new digs and he said: "don't know if i am going to stay in the truth"...!.
my advice was if that is what he wants to do then perhaps now is the time to not go to the new local hall and do a fade.... daughter read animal farm for school and commented: "i can see a few similarities to the jws in that story".... my response was well, wait till you read 1984 darling!
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Mary
Hey, that's fantastic news Auzzie! Sorry, I haven't kept up with your situation but I think you and your wife split because of the religion right?
She must be having a fit over the kids leaving Jehover!!
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27
DISCUSSION WITH A JW; YOUR INPUT PLEASE...
by Mary ini'm 'talking' with a jw on another site who of course, does not believe that they are 'false prophets' and says that:.
"...prophetic inspiration and being filled with the spirit ( to use a common expression) do not mean the same thing.".
"...again the wts is using the term "prophet" in the basic sense of a spokesman.
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Mary
This is great! Thanks for all the input. I'm at work now but I'll log in here tonight when I get home to share with you a few other bonehead comments this JW made....
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27
DISCUSSION WITH A JW; YOUR INPUT PLEASE...
by Mary ini'm 'talking' with a jw on another site who of course, does not believe that they are 'false prophets' and says that:.
"...prophetic inspiration and being filled with the spirit ( to use a common expression) do not mean the same thing.".
"...again the wts is using the term "prophet" in the basic sense of a spokesman.
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Mary
I'm 'talking' with a JW on another site who of course, does not believe that they are 'false prophets' and says that:
"...Prophetic Inspiration and being filled with the Spirit ( to use a common expression) do NOT mean the same thing."
"...Again the WTS is using the term "prophet" in the basic sense of a spokesman. ALL Christians when they speak or share from God's word are "prophets" in that basic sense."
"...The term is NOT being used to describe a "Prophet" who has direct inspiration to reveal NEW things directly from God."
"...(1)Does every Christian foretell the future by divine revelation, or (2)simply speak about what God has revealed in Scripture about the future? We have always made it plain we are speaking of (2) when describing our activities..."
and the pièce de résistance :
"...OH and we have never set a date...."
I've got some questions and zingers to come back on him with, but I would love any input from you guys. Can the word "prophet" actually be "used in the basic sense"? Or is this just a typical cop-out from a Witness when faced with the idea of being a false prophet.........
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32
Things you did to pass the time at meetings/service/assemblies/conventions/memorials
by OneDayillBeFree ini'm currently at the meeting again... i'm always in the back working the sound cause everyone else can't seem to work it and i'm mostly on my phone reading jwn or writing, or doodling or sometimes i just stare at the audience to see who's falling asleep or daydreaming.
its really the only way i can still sit through these things.. but i remember getting the number of a girl i used to like at one district convention and we would text each other during the program and talk about how boring it was.. i also remember sneaking out of a circuit assembly and going to see a car show that was going on right next door.
that was fun!.
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Mary
I did a thread on 'How to Keep Awake at the Assemblies' years ago, but maybe it's time to do it again for all the Newbies on here, so here goes:
Going to the assembly this year? Ready to fall asleep before the opening song is even done? Wonder how you'll ever make it to 5 o'clock without losing it? Well fear no more! Below are several tips you can put into practice to get you through the day from the moment you park your car in the rattiest part of town till you scurry back to your hotel room that you did not book through the Borg.
1. The first order of the day is getting some strong COFFEE - and I don't mean that watery crap from McDonalds; I mean the Dark Roast Columbia beans from Starbucks - chew the beans along with an aspirin and some ephedrine for that extra "buzz" that you'll need fighting the happiest people on earth for a seat. This is also called The Stack and will help you lose weight while you sit on your ass for the next 3 days wondering what ever posessed your parents to join such a screwed up religion........
2. Finding it hard to get good seats for you and your family? Tired of climbing all those stairs up to the nosebleed section, knowing that one wrong move will see you crashing down 4 flights of stairs? Well fear no more! You can avoid this situation a couple of ways:
a) You can "volunteer" for being an "attendent" if you're a male, which means that you get into the auditorium earlier than everyone else. Don't let them fool you with that crap 'no one can save seats till the doors are open.' Believe me, all the attendents get seats before the herd. Once you have your pick of the seats simply fold your volunteer badge up and put it in the contribution box on your way out for some more coffee beans.
b) Look the auditorium over carefully and then choose the seats you want. Don't worry if there's already bibles and songbooks on the seats; simply gather them up and take them to the Lost and Found section. Check out the coolers stashed under the seat to see if there's anything worth eating. Take one bite out of all the sandwiches and then put them back exactly how you found them. When the assembly starts and the family shows up and accuses you of taking their seats, look at them in total shock and announce loudly that Freddie Franz was your uncle and that if they don't leave you alone, you'll have them all disfellowshipped by the next Theocratic Misery School. When someone goes to get security, whisper that they can have the seats back for $50.00 each, promising to put it in the contribution box. If they refuse, tell security that you saw one of these people in the library last week reading Crisis of Conscious. After security escorts them out, enjoy the rest of their sandwiches and pop.3. If there are people sitting in the seats in front of you (denying you the right to put your feet up on the seats), make lots of noise, such as chopping loudly on chips, crackers or even better: Crunch a Munch.........smack your lips noisely while opening cans of coke. Slurp some out and then top it up with either rum or scotch. When the those in front of you turn around to give you the evil eye and tell you to knock it off, grin at them at say: "No oblo English!" Keep this up until they leave in disgust. The minute they do, put their seats up for sale.
4. Tired of looking up all those scriptures telling you that you're not doing enough in God's Organization? The answer is simple: bring a novel to read, placing it inside your bible. Try one of the early Harry Potter books or a book on Elvis sightings as they'll fit snugly into the bible. Everyone around you will be impressed that your eyes never leave the bible and how totally immersed you are spiritual things.
5. The afternoon sessions arrive and you're bored out of your mind. You keep hoping the drama will hold your interest, but it's even worse than last years. Bring a straw to your seat along with some frozen peas. You'll have to be sitting close enough to the stage for this one, but start shooting peas through the straws at all the actors in the drama. Watch them lose their cool as they try to continue on as though nothing's happened. Repeat this once they're thru and the main speaker is back on stage telling you what a fine example you just saw! Wait for everyone to start clapping and then aim for the head. If he's wearing glasses, he'll wonder what the hell's going on and will probably lose his train of thought and start repeating himself. Start laughing out loud the minute he does. If caught, you will be disfellowshipped on the spot but take comfort in knowing that you made 20,000 people laugh their asses off. If you have any frozen peas left over, save them for #7.
6. If there's any small kids sitting in front of you, (99.9% chance of this) start making faces at them till they start laughing. Their mothers will probably give them a smack and drag them to the bathroom for another one, but don't worry, they probably wanted to get up anyway. Whisper to your kid that if they start to cry, you'll take them out for an icecream cone. March them out of there in righteous anger when they start crying and then head for the nearest Baskin Robbins.
7. You'll need a friend to assist you with this one: Using the straw and frozen peas used in Suggestion #5, start smiling and winking at all the attendents "guarding" the speaker (this will only work for women). Hike up your skirt and cross your legs like Sharon Stone did in Basic Instinct. While all the guards are drooling over your legs, your friend is free to shoot all the peas they want at the speaker. As the male guards have been totally distracted by your friend, your chances of getting disfellowshipped will be greatly reduced. For those that feel particularly daring, you could fly a large paper airplane with the JWD web's site written on it, on to the stage. If anyone looks at you, point discreetly at the person sitting next to you and roll your eyes in disgust. Try not to giggle when a Judicial Committee comes and drags them away "for a little chat".
8. For the concluding song, start singing really loud, really off-key and one word ahead of everyone else. This throws everyone around you off, especially if you are singing "Be Glad You Nations". If anyone gives you a dirty look, wink at them and wave as though you were long-lost friends.
9. During the concluding song discreetly make your way to the hallway and wait for the prayer to begin, knowing it'll go on forever. Right in the middle of it, pull the fire alarm and watch the Christ-like attitude of thousands evaporate before your very eyes. Make sure you're out of the way or you WILL be trampled to death. -
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How to beat and control your wife: a new Muslim marriage book!
by Terry ina local bookstore has sold out of a controversial marriage guide that advises muslim men on how to beat their wives.. .
the 160-page book, published by idara impex in new delhi, india, is written by hazrat maulana ashraf ali thanvi, whos described in the books foreword as a prolific writer on almost every topic of islamic learning.. .
the stores manager, who didnt give his name, said the book had been sold out for some time, and the stores owner, whom the manager identified as shamim ahmad, refused to comment for the story.. .
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Mary
Why am I not the least bit surprised?
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30
Update on the Henrietta Riley trust
by Aussie Oz ini have found (thanks to an older thread) and downloaded pdfs of the henriette riley trust fund form 990s filed with the irs.
http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/38-6043103/henrietta-m-riley-trust-33b006006-fbo.aspx#mission.
interesting investments (many household names).
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Mary
Justita said: 100% incorrect. The investors legal duty is to manage the TRUST to make the most money for the beneficiaries under the the Prudent Investor Standard, and they are not required to use social investment strategies OR "respect the wishes" of the beneficiaries. As I have repeatedly written, the beneficiaries have absolutely no say. The bank would really laugh at such a request...
OK, my jaw just dropped reading that. So if the WTS stated that they did not want the monies invested in tobacco or arms, etc. the bank would just say 'too bad, so sad'? Really? I'm somewhat stunned at that. I'm wondering if the laws are different here in Canada because when I met with my banker regarding investments and where I want my monies to be invested in, I had a pretty good input on what I was investing in. Or maybe the difference is that this is my money and not a trust??
In either event, thank you for the clarification on this Justita.
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76
Happy 12th birthday to JWD / JWN (us !)
by Simon inomg, today is the forum's 12th birthday !.
omg x 2 - i said the word 'birthday' and no-one was beheaded !
lol.
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Mary
Simon said: We now have over 4 and a quarter million posts
Hey Simon, you should fill out a Service report, mark that down and send it off to Crooklyn. LOL!
