so now that the entire midwestern region seems to know about this "confidential" judicial committee, i suppose it was time to get started with it.
we arranged to have both accusers come at specific times.
i ask, please, for your level-headed, thoughtful advice.
Confession,
Well handled then, well written now.
And I'm glad you got an answer to your question, even if you wished to let this thing go forever.
You and I would have gotten along famously on an elder body, but that's probably why both of us left.
Steve
about two minutes ago the announcement was made that auldsoul was "no longer one of jehovah's witnesses".
he and jst2laws one minute ago toasted to celebrate.
please join us.
jgnat,
..and an even Older Soul Quote, all the way back on December 4, 2004:Hopefully someone here can help me figure out where the bitching about a past you never even wanted stops and where the Great Enlightenment starts.I think we helped you along, eh mate?
WOW, whoever that was, I'll bet he's embarrassed.
Enigma,
Good one. LOL
Steve
desperation.
the evidence mounted that your faith which you mistakenly built upon men, your entire spirituality, your life, was standing precariously high upon the wobbling foundation of an artfully contrived fraud.
remember the quiet desperation?
Desperation. The evidence mounted that your faith which you mistakenly built upon men, your entire spirituality, your life, was standing precariously high upon the wobbling foundation of an artfully contrived fraud. Remember the quiet desperation? We have lived a life of quiet desperation. Whether by epiphany or by gravity pulling us down a gently sloping drive, we become aware that things have changed and our world is turned upside down. We now must deal with loss. As loosing a loved one to death, you lost yourself. The only way to emerge from this is to allow yourself to grieve. Do you remember the denial? "No, this cannot be true", "this is not happening", "I'll wake up soon and things will be normal again". But your new reality is the present. This is your life and there is no going back. Do you remember the panic? You cant stay in the fraud, but you can't leave either. Your family, your friends! Everything important in your life is tied to this fraud. You try to act like everything is OK, but it gradually sickens you to keep roll playing as if nothing has changed. You want to scream, you want to cry, you want to tell someone but you can't, they will not understand. Eventually the pain of living this miserable life becomes greater than the anticipated pain of being true to yourself. So you do it. You speak out, you blow your cover, shed the layers of actors makeup and emerge naked as the "bastard". Your closest friend cries "How could you do this to me" or "you have changed" and "you are causing me unspeakable pain". Yes, you have changed. But not suddenly. It has been over a period of months or years, but it is a new you. A better, no, it is the REAL you. Finally. But there is no turning back now. You have to be punished. You couldn't do this without being insane, on drugs, or influenced by Satan. Your friends can't go along with this, nor can they be viewed as having accessed matters wrongly. You have gone bad, that simple. You have turned like mayonnaise in a hot sun. You are dangerous, poisonous. The rumors must be spread to protect perceptions. You have lost your mind. You have turned to the flesh. Sin has become your obsession and you don't care who you hurt. Details of your deviance emerge from private circles. Stories sprout like spring flowers that quickly grow into strangling vines full of thorns. You are such an ASS to them. How could you do this to them. How could you hurt the people you love. Then a flash of memory overwhelms your emotions, the love you have for them. Your times together. Your laughter together. Your tears together. The sharing and the sacrifices. Do they remember who you were? Do they know you haven't changed? Do they realize you are only stepping away from the imitation life but your heart and soul are the same. Can't they see you still love them, yet they respond with hatred and unthinkable accusations. You have no alternative. What's done is done. You must move on. You can't hang on to those who withdraw. You can only hang on to the memories. Even though they murder you with their tongues and hate your very soul, you give them a tearful hug in your heart and move on. Move on. For a moment, a moment to cherish, the desperation subsides, replaced with sadness. Steve
after much deliberation, i decided to go "out" at the end of a public talk.
it didn't go down too well, but at least i was able to give some of my reasons for leaving.. i've put some of the details on my homepage.
i'll update it more when i get the time and the strength.
WOW LT,
I had never before listened to the talk. What a wonderfully loving way to exit. You didn't throw grenades or rotten eggs at the Watchtower but simply expressed your intention of allowing the original mediator his proper place instead of an organization. And then you expressed your love for them and said good bye. I'm moved.
Steve
about two minutes ago the announcement was made that auldsoul was "no longer one of jehovah's witnesses".
he and jst2laws one minute ago toasted to celebrate.
please join us.
About two minutes ago the Announcement was made that Auldsoul was "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses".
He and Jst2laws one minute ago toasted to celebrate.
Please join us.
Jst2laws
.
the name was suggested by someone who posts here, since it is not really a disassociation letter.
here, for your criticism pleasure, is my "un"association letter..
AuldSoul,
You know how much I hate to be on the other side of a debate with you, been there/done that too often already. So I would like to express my heartfelt sympathy for the Body of Elders in the XXX congregation. (Oh, how I can imagine their desire to get that irritating young man in a headlock)
I'm sure they are deferring this one to the Society for 'spiritual guidance'. Don't expect a response for 4 to 6 weeks.
CodeBlue,
Please, no more LemonDrops until you get that web cam hooked up. And say hi for me to your friend on the floor.
Steve
note: the catholic molestation cases have mostly been evaluated under employment law theories not the tort of misrepresentation or under non-fraud related tort claims]; fails to address important legal considerations such as standing and statute of limitations; and finally and most importantly, the essay fails to address in any meaningful way the inevitable constitutional arguments that would be raised by opposing (watchtower) counsel.
supreme court justices do not have the time to browse through law journals and the implication that they would be interested in an essay is even more deceptive.
the society does not cite a 1960 study as evidence that blood transfusions are hazardous.. here is the actual quotation in context:.
Steve2,
I'd be interested in the source of the "50 percent cave in" and accept blood figure. So very easily said, far less easily verified. The figure sounds more like conjecture to me. At best, it would require very wide sampling of JW behaviour from a wide number of hospitals and Emergency Departments around the globe. It's amazing how quickly figures drawn out of the air can solidify into something that seems reasonable and research-based but is little more than conjecture.
I appreciate your apprehension. While this figure was not pulled from the air it was not presented as 'research based' either. As I said it was "told to me", and I went on to say "Even if this is inaccurately high" so as to not imply it was the result of a study. The comment came (indirectly to me) from a non JW medical doctor who was personally familiar with many JWs in such circumstances. When I heard this comment I immediately thought of the WTs insistence years ago that a JW in such a condition of facing death or transfusion NOT be left alone with medical professionals, that a JW advocate stay with the patient. It was clear the WT's concern was the very thing this doctor had observed. We were told as elders that this "caving in" was happening far too often. It would be even worse to find out it was only 20 or 30 percent who caved in and the others stood their ground with doubts about the theology but with conviction that the recommended transfusion was was terribly dangerous and that alternative therapies were safer and just as effective. That was MY BELIEF as a former JW until recently, because I too had been mislead by the WT's misrepresentation of the secular facts. How about you? Steve
note: the catholic molestation cases have mostly been evaluated under employment law theories not the tort of misrepresentation or under non-fraud related tort claims]; fails to address important legal considerations such as standing and statute of limitations; and finally and most importantly, the essay fails to address in any meaningful way the inevitable constitutional arguments that would be raised by opposing (watchtower) counsel.
supreme court justices do not have the time to browse through law journals and the implication that they would be interested in an essay is even more deceptive.
the society does not cite a 1960 study as evidence that blood transfusions are hazardous.. here is the actual quotation in context:.
(baylor university, waco, tx) an essay entitled, "jehovah's witnesses, blood transfusions, and the tort of misrepresentation," found in the autumn issue of baylor universitys prestigious journal of church and state, published december 13, 2005, exposes the vulnerability of jehovahs witnesses religious organization to massive claims for compensation because of the religions misrepresentation of the medical risks of blood transfusions.
this milestone essay critically examines one of the religions main publications for teaching their children and new recruits about their blood beliefs, how can blood save your life?
the peer-reviewed essay details many misrepresentations of medical facts, which the religion partly relies on to support its blood prohibition, thus denying its members from making fully informed medical decisions.
Right on Auldsoul ,
The biggest advantage to pursuit of this versus pursuit of child molestation is the lack of a veil between the elder bodies and the Scoiety itself. This goes straight for the jugular.
And as you said yesterday, there is no delay with 'discovery' because the WT refuses to turn over records. The record is right there in the Blood booklet.
Precedents are established
No deniability
No obscured fiduciary relationship
This just might fly.
Steve
(baylor university, waco, tx) an essay entitled, "jehovah's witnesses, blood transfusions, and the tort of misrepresentation," found in the autumn issue of baylor universitys prestigious journal of church and state, published december 13, 2005, exposes the vulnerability of jehovahs witnesses religious organization to massive claims for compensation because of the religions misrepresentation of the medical risks of blood transfusions.
this milestone essay critically examines one of the religions main publications for teaching their children and new recruits about their blood beliefs, how can blood save your life?
the peer-reviewed essay details many misrepresentations of medical facts, which the religion partly relies on to support its blood prohibition, thus denying its members from making fully informed medical decisions.
Eduardo,
Thanks for your reply. Except for your somewhat demeaning assessment of the author of this article, who is a friend, I appreciate your perspective. This matter will go no where in the courts if your opinion prevails in the legal system. Having your perspective on this will help the exjw community in the long run.
However, I believe when the entire article is available for review you may soften a little.
The Society is not misrepresenting anything when it cites what is the holding of a case, even if the case had nothing to do with blood or minors, and that is what it has done. (Doesn't everyone realize by now that every thing published by the Society is vetted by the Legal Dept?
The published article DOES site numerous misrepresentation. Just one example is the WT's quoting of Dr. John Spratt in the American Journal of Surgery Sept 1986, as saying "Cancer surgeons may need to become bloodless surgeons". As you know misrepresentation is often by omission. In this case the WT does not mention that Dr. Spratt's definition of "bloodless" does not exclude many fractions such as "frozen red blood cells" that the WT forbids. However, their use of his quote in their contexts suggest Dr. Spratt concurs with the WT's refusal of life saving 'red blood cells'.
I will say again that I appreciate your perspective and view your opinion as important. We would all be fools to ignore contrary perspectives. I hope you will continue expressing your opinion on the future of this approach after the article is fully available.
Steve
