Posts by jst2laws

254

Why socialism will not work in America...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

the great experiment is failing.... .

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/11/mncuud91o.dtl.

jst2laws

Going to bed,

Good to hear from Stillajwexelder , To answer your question with a negative, Money. Money/better life style for ME, money for my family back at home. And they will stay here until the European Union or some other location offers better odds of getting what they want.

Journey-on,

country represents UNLIMITED possibilities.

I'm too tired to be serious. I'm reminded of the statement that America is the only place in the world where 'a poor black child can grow up to become a rich white woman'. But that's irrelevant. I'm sorry. As for America being a land of opportunity, things change. Now, instead of growing up learning the family business or learning a profitable trade from scratch, our land of opportunity is limited to getting a degree, preferably in a prestigious university, so that we have the "opportunity" if getting a fair paying job with a major corporation. But this is not a local problem. The entire western world has become limited to this 'opportunity'.

Frankie

But a society that fails to evolve, looking backward at their success, will fall behind those who use their success as a stepping stone into the future.
I think you are 100% correct. I also think latin America is passing the US, in this area. I think sheer necessity made it happen because of all the suffering the US has caused it. Too much suffering to ignore caused more people to act.

According to Eric Hoffer the 'suffering' will cause South America to react, but with a great deal more confrontation and bloodshed. It will be the more evolved countries that will step ahead of the US, like the European Union and possibly Britian. Their dominance of the US dollar may be the 'tell' that the US has missed the boat.

Steve

254

Why socialism will not work in America...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

the great experiment is failing.... .

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/11/mncuud91o.dtl.

jst2laws

sammielee24 and journeyon,

I was thinking of complementing Sammie's wife for her commments, when Jouneyon focused on some of which I liked.

Journeyon

I believe that a great society is one where we all contribute for the greatest good. Business and people alike. A society where we all contribute to ensure that our elderly, children and disabled are cared for and we all strive to end poverty in the wealthiest countries. We can do this by making sure that health care is universal, where education is affordable and mandatory, where we provide a liveable wage for people and not a substandard allottment initiated 30 years ago when costs were 500 times less than they are now. We should make people accountable and obligated for the children they bear and set standards with reasonable objectives within our social assistance programs, so that nobody sees their circumstance as endless but instead are motivated by ability.
I believe we all want this. It's just the methods most disagree with.

A society obbsessed with profits, market economy, is not inclined to produce "methods" that will meet the ideals of sammielee. We have become a society and economic system dominated by corporations and their impersonal objectives (I'm restraining myself). We have a constitution and a democratic/republic that has been the best in history compared to the system from which we emerged. But a society that fails to evolve, looking backward at their success, will fall behind those who use their success as a stepping stone into the future.

Steve

254

Why socialism will not work in America...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

the great experiment is failing.... .

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/11/mncuud91o.dtl.

jst2laws

Gregor,

the fact is more people want to immigrate to the US than any other country in the world. Being successful means you will always have resentful enemies and critics. People like Simon and HS seem to have developed a deep dislike of this country.

While you point out my emphasis that capitalism may not be perfect, let me point out a key word in your response: "successful".

What is this success you point out as the merit of capitalism? The indicator of success you suggest is that others want to immigrate to the US. Why do they want to immigrate? I suspect we can agree it is not because they have made a rational investigation of political/economic systems and choose ours. Do you not agree most who 'want to immigrate' feel a bit disadvantaged and want a piece of the pie? Does this make ours the best system? Simply being the object of desire does not make us the best, anymore than being the hottest soccer mom in the neighborhood makes a her the best woman or human. It's flawed reasoning. Perhaps the "critics" are looking at something deeper.

As for Simon and HS disliking the country, maybe you are taking their ideology personally. I'm inclined to think they are pointing out flaws in ideas and policies of a system rather then dissing the pretty soccer mom that everyone wants.

I appreciate your response.

Steve

254

Why socialism will not work in America...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

the great experiment is failing.... .

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/11/mncuud91o.dtl.

jst2laws

HS, Oh how you waste your time, but it is entertaining. So many proletarians who serve wine for the elite and sing to the band on the Haliburton/Walmart Titanic. Journey-on and others Is it possible, that capitalism has limits and faults that need to be addressed, or is it perfect as it is? If it is perfect, why do we already have Social Security into which you pay? Steve

9

A Premise to Sue the WBTS

by tula in

jw
friends

"when the government puts its imprimatur on a particular religion it conveys a message of exclusion to all those who do not adhere to the favored beliefs.

a government cannot be premised on the belief that all persons are created equal when it asserts that god prefers some.

" supreme court justice harry a. blackmun in the lee v. weisman ruling,1992.. .

jst2laws

How CAN this be furthered?

It is talking about the limitations of government, not the limitations of religion.

As for religion, nearly all "convey a message of exclusion to all those who do not adhere to the favored beliefs"

Steve

17

DRUNKINESS AND ALCOHOL AT BETHEL

by badboy in

jw
friends

how much was there?

jst2laws

Back in the sixties and seventies it was a big problem. The basement of the 107 building is where they kept hoppers of sorted recyclables. There was always more hoppers of beer cans and beer bottles than anything else. The drinking age then was 18 so it was a problem. This does not mean the WT tolerated it. One of my room mates was DFd for getting drunk. According to Ben Gier the one time vice president, Hayden Covington, was kicked out of Bethel for drunkenness. Not to mention Drunken Joe Rutherford. Perhaps they are more stringent on the problem now. I suspect the hard line GB has tightened up, but have no specific knowledge of it. Steve

35

Quantum Universe

by undercover in

jw
friends

an acquaintance was telling me about how there have been some new discoveries in quantum mechanics and that "everything we know is going to change", his words.

he said that these top scientists and physicists have already met with the world's top religious leaders and explained to them what they have discovered and how it will change everyone's perception about reality.. i'm not all that informed on quantum mechanics and all that scientific mumbo-jumbo other than to know that some people believe that there are parallel universes and that it might be possible(?

) that we exist in different universes at the same time.. from what this guy was telling me, i gathered (i think) that reality and our perception of reality is based on nothing tangible except information.

jst2laws

Frankiespeakin,

Only want to add, it was John Aspect in about 1980 who proved that entangled particles respond to each other at the rate of at least twice the speed of light. He did this in validation of the Bell Theorum where he and Bell found Einstein to be wrong regarding the EPR mind experiment. Notice I did not say they 'communicate' at twice the speed of light because, as Niels Bohr stated to Einstein about 80 years ago, 'they do not need to communicate, they are connected'.

Steve

35

Quantum Universe

by undercover in

jw
friends

an acquaintance was telling me about how there have been some new discoveries in quantum mechanics and that "everything we know is going to change", his words.

he said that these top scientists and physicists have already met with the world's top religious leaders and explained to them what they have discovered and how it will change everyone's perception about reality.. i'm not all that informed on quantum mechanics and all that scientific mumbo-jumbo other than to know that some people believe that there are parallel universes and that it might be possible(?

) that we exist in different universes at the same time.. from what this guy was telling me, i gathered (i think) that reality and our perception of reality is based on nothing tangible except information.

jst2laws

Terry,

IFWETAKEAWAYTHESPACESBETWEENOURWORDSTHESENSEISSTILLTHEREBUTHARDERTOSEE.

Hum! Interesting Terry. But if we remove space, we loose more then a pause in words. We loose the two dimensional letters that make up the words. We have nothing there to read, no experience. The same with our three dimensional world. The dimensions only exist in space which as you say is 'imaginary'. Again, do you agree that these facts raise questions about the nature of our physical reality?

Music only exists in time.
The melody of our consciousness requires space between the notes.

This is good. While, it is clear you are mixing a philosophical meaning of 'space' with the issue of 'imaginary' physical space - I like the metaphor. Life, existence, our living experience is like music. It is to be enjoyed. It does not matter that it has the appearance of solidity and mass while being composed of non-solid energy moving about in our "imaginary constructs" of space and time. It is our experience of it that makes it real. Our perception of it's solidity and permanence is all that is important. It is music if we choose for it to be, or it is irritating noise if that is what we choose it to be. And we can miss the music by obsessing over the nature of the notes. STeve

35

Quantum Universe

by undercover in

jw
friends

an acquaintance was telling me about how there have been some new discoveries in quantum mechanics and that "everything we know is going to change", his words.

he said that these top scientists and physicists have already met with the world's top religious leaders and explained to them what they have discovered and how it will change everyone's perception about reality.. i'm not all that informed on quantum mechanics and all that scientific mumbo-jumbo other than to know that some people believe that there are parallel universes and that it might be possible(?

) that we exist in different universes at the same time.. from what this guy was telling me, i gathered (i think) that reality and our perception of reality is based on nothing tangible except information.

jst2laws

Hello Undercover,

Don't jump out of any windows yet, man. While new problems are discovered daily in the world of quantum mechanics, the challenge to our perception of 'reality' began almost 100 years ago. No need to discuss this with the world's religionist because they have not been listening for the past century, except for a few like Unity and Unitarian Universalists.

The only thing new that I'm aware of is the marriage of the new Cognitive Sciences with quantum physics. This new science is starting to poke a stick at the questions raised by the experimental observations of quantum mechanics.

Bottom line is as Terry says, reality does exist. BUT, the confusing thing is, our reality is not made up of the same stuff that we seem to see. It is 'real' but made up of stuff we do not normally think of as composing reality. Yes, all matter is really just energy and rawest energy has no mass. In the right composition energy takes on characteristics we PERCEIVE as mass, and a lot of different compositions of energy gives us our physical reality as we perceive it.

Terry,

Reality is real. It is tangible.
What does NOT exist is our imaginary constructs of space and time and zero. But, they are useful imaginary constructs. You can't put them in a cigar box and store them on a shelf.

I agree. Our reality is real. I agree space and time are "imaginary constructs". Yet are physical reality is only perceived in the context of this imaginary space and time. Take space and time away and are reality goes away. How can you explain to the layman how our physical reality is "real" yet it is experienced only in the "imaginary constructs" of space and time. What you state above is what we have learned from 'relativity' and quantum physics. And these truths alone raise issues about the NATURE of our reality. Don't you agree? Steve

69

The "power" of positive thinking...do you believe in it?

by onacruse in

jw
friends

jst2laws

HS,

She is a biochemist and attaches great significance to Quantum Physics, not just in her day-today, but in her work. The last time I saw such passion in a persons eyes, they were Pioneering.

LOL, yes even some biochemist will get giddy when they discover the impact of QM's (quantum mechanics) findings on our perception of reality. That's why so many great QM theorist became philosophers or mystics. Actually her field, biochemistry, is a side product of QM. Modern chemistry grew out of the darkness of empirical chemistry as a result of the profound accuracy of QM's description of electron shells and their need for completeness leading to predictable chemical bonds producing new compounds. But her enthusiasm sounds more like a person who has discovered that our world is not made of the stuff we see in front of us. For me it was a spiritual experience.

And your comparison to the passion of a JW 'Pioneer' was humorous but the difference is that this lady is excited about implications of the fact finding scientific process, not a fantastic belief system based on elite interpretation of supposedly sacred revelations (in other words, not based on mythology).

But WHY are you signing off as "forever miserable"???

STeve