Posts by debator

100

These are good people

by Retrovirus in

in my introductory post i told about the jws that have been visiting me at my sil's request.

at first i spoke with them for her sake, then found i liked them anyway.

what i didn't like was the literature, especially the stuff trying to disprove evolution.

They quote from many sources. It is a fallacy to try and reject a point itself as invalid because you cast aspersions on the qualifications of the person that said it. I won't be drawn into that kind of fallacious argument. It is an imperfection of men issue you are drawing me into. (One that is a favourite on here I might add)

Points stand or fall on their own merit!

The creation book due to it's age will be to a certain degree out-of-date regarding current Evolution theory (whose ever changing face is so hard to pin down)

100

These are good people

by Retrovirus in

in my introductory post i told about the jws that have been visiting me at my sil's request.

at first i spoke with them for her sake, then found i liked them anyway.

what i didn't like was the literature, especially the stuff trying to disprove evolution.

debator

Hi Retrovirus

You clearly do not like Dishonesty but you accept the claims on here that Witnesses are a cult without checking?

According to the majority of Countries and the European human rights courts Jehovah's Witnesses are an established and recognised religion (feel free to check this) and not a cult.

People on here have axes to grind against Witnesses and it shows in their biased unfounded assumptions and opinions regarding Jehovah's witnesses.

They present personal opinion on here as assumed facts.

As regards to Evolution verses Creation debate, this is a difficult subject since these are extremely opposing beliefs. Where both sides may make mistakes on what the other group believe and teach. I find it particularly hard with Evolution since it is ever-changing medium according to current understandings of it's processes. It would be accurate to say what is currently believed with regards to Evolution is very different from what Darwin understood when he first taught it. If I said I can prove men do not come from apes these days an evolutionist would agree with me but in Darwin's day that was what was believed.

Any books disproving Evolution have to change constantly because Evolution theories change so much.

With Religions the difficulty is that there are so many to choose from and all completely different in doctrine and understanding on who or what God is.

But there can only be one truth and that is why we search. It can be said humans need to know!

I am a Jehovah Witness because I found the true God's truth in Jehovah's witnesses according to his word the Bible and I reject Evolution because makes a belief out of disbelief and scepticism of the created world around us.

But everyone has to find out what they believe for themselves as you do too. But please do it according to researchable facts rather than prejudiced opinion of the JW hate-mongerers from this site.

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

debator

Hi designs

You know perfectly well Zechariah is a future prophecy regarding God's people. It doesn't just relate to the jews alone and in fact is pointing to Jesus establishing the Christians and what happens from that point.

Your argument would make Jesus a false prophet by his references to zechariah in regards himself and his followers..

Jesus actually quotes Zechariah 13:7 in reference to what will happen to his apostles in Mathew 26:31 (a future event) and the events of 13:9 happen after this (another future event)

The misunderstanding is all on your side!

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

debator

Hi Anonymous4

I am a Jehovah's witnesses.

This is an anti-witness site you will only get hatred and bitterness from the majority on here against witnesses. They avoid discussing the Bible truths (as you noticed) that witnesses live by and focus on imperfection of men issues and a few cleverly worded fallacious arguments designed to deliberately create doubt in you. It's not just the Witnesses either: they are also anti-Jehovah too. They would drive away any spiritual desire in you to find the truth according to God's kingdom. By telling you that no imperfect group of followers could be in receipt of God's blessing yet they are wrong. The Bible proves anti-witnesses wrong.

Do not let the people on here tell you what to believe regarding the Witnesses! Please rethink rejecting your bible study. It isn't just about acquiring knowledge but about becoming one of Jehovah's people, in a time when religions turn away from Bible truths and from Jehovah and his beloved son Jesus and reject them in favour of men's opinion.

If you want imperfect human opinion as to why not to be a Jehovah's witness you will get it on here but if you want God's word as to why we should be his people, you will find it in his word the Bible.

Zechariah 13:9 This third I will put into the fire: I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them: I will say "They are my people" and they will say "Jehovah is our God."

53

"Do We Have to Jump From the Watchtowers Frying Pan into Hellfire?"

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

some may enjoy this new post at free minds by sherry jansma.

do we have to jump from the watchtowers frying pan into hellfire?.

one of the most appealing doctrines in the theology of jehovahs witnesses is their teaching on hellfire.

debator

Hi Ding

There is no point proof-texting the hellfire doctrine into the Bible. It simply isn't there. It is read into extremely figurative passages from the Bible namely Revelation.

Fire itself is used to denote total destruction biblically, simply annihiliation.

Hense why we also have Revelation talking about hades and death going into the fire.

Once Revelation uses fire figuratively/metaphorically then to make it literal is less than honest.

This is an opportunity to clearly see what happens when supposition is read into the Bible rather than what is simply there.

29

Mind Control on Dr. Phil

by brotherdan in

usually i'm not into dr. phil at all.

but yesterday he had on dr. philip zimbardo from standford university on the show to talk about obedience to authority.

now the focus was on people doing bad and cruel things when obeying authority, but i could not help but see how many of the psychological issues also seemed to take place in jehovah's witnesses.. for example, a man was waiting outside the studio when a security gaurd walked up to the waiting man with a supposed thief.

debator

Cold-reading Witnesses into a random program about a very set-up situation (made for TV) is ridiculous.

179

So I just got called a narcissist

by sabastious in

my family knows that i post on this forum (they have a packet of print outs of topics i have started) and they know about my videos on youtube.. they have made a demand that i cease all internet communication with the apostate community and then they will have me back.. i have refused.. they say i am a narcissist because i am ignoring the feelings of my family because they are very hurt by the things i am doing on the internet and speaking out against the religion.. interesting since they had to search out my posts and videos to gather evidence of apostasy.. -sab.

debator

Hi Sab

Armageddon is a bible teaching! Is it really the witnesses you are apposing if you don't like the bible teaching of Armageddon? among others?

12

Thinking about going to HELL

by Smoky in

i got to thinking about death the other day, now that holloween is here.

this thought is only in reference to dying before armeggedon.. they idea of heaven and hell, in the non-jw christian world is: if your good you go to heaven.

if your bad you go to hell.

debator

Hell only makes sense if you ignore it's original meanings in hebrew. "grave or pit"

179

So I just got called a narcissist

by sabastious in

my family knows that i post on this forum (they have a packet of print outs of topics i have started) and they know about my videos on youtube.. they have made a demand that i cease all internet communication with the apostate community and then they will have me back.. i have refused.. they say i am a narcissist because i am ignoring the feelings of my family because they are very hurt by the things i am doing on the internet and speaking out against the religion.. interesting since they had to search out my posts and videos to gather evidence of apostasy.. -sab.

debator

HI sab

It's okay, I have enjoyed this debate. It is a fine line between promoting God's true faith and as part of that pointing out the falseness of other religions and false teachings which niether Jesus or Paul balked at doing but for anyone to simply make destruction of a a particular faith your goal and aim is unhealthy.

We do not want to personally destroy False religion (I once had a born-again denomination say he would enjoy killing false religion's followers at armageddon alongside Jesus and even had the sword ready for it) Jehovah will do that in his own time through his son but not us. All we want to do is save as many people as we can from false religion and it's false teachings so they can partake in Jehovah's life-saving kingdom message.

179

So I just got called a narcissist

by sabastious in

my family knows that i post on this forum (they have a packet of print outs of topics i have started) and they know about my videos on youtube.. they have made a demand that i cease all internet communication with the apostate community and then they will have me back.. i have refused.. they say i am a narcissist because i am ignoring the feelings of my family because they are very hurt by the things i am doing on the internet and speaking out against the religion.. interesting since they had to search out my posts and videos to gather evidence of apostasy.. -sab.

debator

Hi sweetbaby

I do not answer personal questions but I am a practicing wtness.