Posts by debator

172

Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

by oldlightnewshite in

i thought it would be an interesting exercise to ask everybody on here what their 'top 10 reasons why jws don't have the truth' actually were.

maybe we can see some correlating views/patterns/ideas that may help us de-programme the newbies that come on this site.

if eventually most people have an outstanding gripe/concern it'll help everybody understand the ex-jw mindset a little better.

debator

HI wobble and inbetween.

I have debated False prophets on a number of occasions on this site.

The requirements have to be biblical! not personal opinion Inbetween. Accusations that they are false prophets and dishonestly quoting one scripture from a whole chapter deut 18 as proof, Wobble, to avoid the context is very dishonest.

Deuteronomy 18:18-22

18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by Jehovah ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of Jehovah does not take place or come true, that is a message Jehovah has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

This is the acknowledged blueprint for knowing if a prophets words are inspired of God the actual "words spoken by Jehovah" This is how we know that books where to be part of the Bible it is also a prophecy concerning Jesus who would be able to tell us his fathers words directly.

Witnesses have never claimed the ability to speak words directly from Jehovah, to be inspired! therefore they do not qualify as false prophets by the very words of this chapter.

69

The Watchtower is now the world's largest magazine!

by life is to short in

jw
friends

newsmaxs magazine just published an article that the watchtower is the most read magazine out there it evens surpasses time.. i have never heard of newmaxs but i just was emailed this and thought you might find it interesting.

i am sorry i do not know how to give the link so i am cutting and pasting.

if someone can do the link it would be great.

debator

Thank you for the article

I like many Witnesses enjoy reading both the watchtower and awake. I have especially enjoyed the change in recent years to a watchtower study magazine particulariy for the Sunday meetings which has led to deeper articles on specific Bible doctrine.

I appreciate that I am a lone voice on this forum on this but worldwide I know there are many, many others like myself that do enjoy reading the Watchtower articles. In a world that needs Magazines and newspapers to reflect shallow issues like what shoes their favourite actor wears etc or who won X-factor etc Watchtowers are a deep and refreshing spiritual encouragement.

86

Some christmas spirit, WT style!

by bohm in

jw
friends

well, i know its a bit self-serving since i allready posted this in jwfacts thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/199939/1/watchtower-images-required, but i think its quite funny and things have been kind of serious around here for the past couple of weeks.. it seem to me that when jahs chanel have desided (im kidding, they has been told) the one and true god really hate christmas and will kill you in nasty ways if you go ahead and celebrate it, it provide a pretty compelling case for not celebrating christmas.

but the governing body can make an even stronger case than that: not only will jesus cry and clice you up if you celebrate christmas, you will also have a really bad time.

wow!.

debator

Christimas is a current Pagan celebration now! And we as Christians do not do them. We can all have family occasions without needing the Christmas tag.

Also from my experience that picture is quite accurate of office Christmas parties where a cheap, fake, odd-shaped miniture tree is usually a requirement.

131

Can we trust this website? (About the subject in which Jehovah's Witnesses were a NGO)

by possible-san in

can we trust this website?.

watchtower as a united nations ngo - critical look at the conspiracy theory.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/.

debator

Hi Possible-san

I refer you to my earlier reply.

My name is debator and I try to reply to all those who ask me questions. If they use different names for me then I will likely miss their replies. So It is upto them to ask me directly using my name as I respectfully use yours Possible-san.

172

Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

by oldlightnewshite in

i thought it would be an interesting exercise to ask everybody on here what their 'top 10 reasons why jws don't have the truth' actually were.

maybe we can see some correlating views/patterns/ideas that may help us de-programme the newbies that come on this site.

if eventually most people have an outstanding gripe/concern it'll help everybody understand the ex-jw mindset a little better.

debator

Hi coffee-black

We are not debating the requirements to be a prophet but the requirements to be false prophets and the Bible simply says they have to claim inspiration, signs, miracles, anti-christs etc The witnesses have claimed none of these.

Again the Bible is specific for the requirements of both and trying to muddy the waters by saying that just claiming to be a prophet can make you a false prophet is ridiculous.

To be a false prophet you have to show specific Bible written requirements for this and the witnesses have shown none of them.

Hi Jimmy

Things only have to be in the Bible once! There isn't a "how many times" option for believing various biblical doctrines. Take "born Again" this actually only appears in the Bible once, among others.

and actually the faithful and discreet servant/manager/slave appears twice. in matt and Luke.

Luke 12:41-43 (New International Version)

41 Peter asked, "Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?"

42 The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns.

Matthew 24:44-46 (New International Version)

44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.

Prophecy interpreting is notoriously difficult since it is the only time we have to look outside the Bible to the world around us for fulfillment and there isn't one single scripture that says getting it wrong condemns you! in fact we are cautioned to keep looking and testing it so as to be more accurate.

131

Can we trust this website? (About the subject in which Jehovah's Witnesses were a NGO)

by possible-san in

can we trust this website?.

watchtower as a united nations ngo - critical look at the conspiracy theory.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/.

debator

Hi Possible-san

Unless you have any further discussion on actual forum topics I see no reason to talk further. I do not feed ad-hominen attacks they are simply distraction techniques, including trying to get me to be various past posters.

Thank you for your earlier replies on the topic at hand.

131

Can we trust this website? (About the subject in which Jehovah's Witnesses were a NGO)

by possible-san in

can we trust this website?.

watchtower as a united nations ngo - critical look at the conspiracy theory.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/.

debator

Hi black-coffee

Since The UN itself does not consider NGO DPI's part of the UN why do you?

On the contrary DPI NGOs are specifically told by the UN itself that:

“association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system”

According to You the UN is lying here.

In the United Nations system, there are NGOs who are associated with the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and there are also NGOs associated with the Department of Public Information (DPI). The Watchtower Society was of the latter kind — associated with the DPI.

“For an NGO to be recognized by the United Nations, however, there are requirements, and even two statuses for which an NGO might apply. The DPI status is under the authority of the U.N. Department of Public Information (UNDPI), which controls U.N. archives and research facilities...

“The other status for which the NGOs may apply is ECOSOC (Economic and Social Council) status. The U.N. Website says that to obtain ECOSOC standing an NGO must prove that its work is directly relevant to U.N. goals. With ECOSOC standing an NGO may enter into a formal consultative relationship with access to officials of U.N. member states and must provide useful or special information to the U.N. Economic and Social Council...”

This is exactly what apostates are accusing the Watchtower Society of doing. Yet, this is not a description of the type of NGO the Watchtower Society was, but it is a description of the other type of NGO — that associated with the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC).

the 1994 NGO brochure stated as a perk that:

“For NGOs associated with DPI, the United Nations provides: ... use of the Dag Hammarskjold Library.”

131

Can we trust this website? (About the subject in which Jehovah's Witnesses were a NGO)

by possible-san in

can we trust this website?.

watchtower as a united nations ngo - critical look at the conspiracy theory.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/.

debator

Hello Possible-san

You have a strange way of discussing a topic? You call me ill-bred when all I have ever done is politely stick to the topic at hand offering no personal attacks towards you?

I discuss the topics not not issues which are designed to discredit me personally which are simply ad hominen attacks to sidetrack from discussion.

You obviously have strong personal opinions on the bible freely acknowledging that you do not take it literally but I do! For me the bible is provides ample proof of being real accounts of real happenings and archaeology supports this in many instances. I myself have seen various carved stones of the other side of the Battles in the bible described from the enemies viewpoint and even a stone with Pontious Pilots name on it. They get little things like the price for a slave right for the specific time period, methods of brick making right etc. People named in the bible are found to have really existed from kings to servants.

I reiterate the racial flood memories that span the world with peoples (that according to historians never met let alone traded stories) shows me it was a real event.

I feel we have both got to the end of our discussion .

And I politely thank you for your replies despite our disagreement.

169

Rich Man and Lazarus

by Ding in

i have never understood the watchtower's explanation of the rich man and lazarus story jesus told in luke 16. of course, they don't believe jesus is talking about what happens in an "afterlife" after people die.. but from the watchtower's point of view:.

1. who are the five brothers?.

2. why can't lazarus go witness to them?

debator

Hi Mary

you must have missed my point from above on the transfiguration.

The transfiguration is a vision simply because Jesus was not a king yet at that point it is showing a time when he will be. It is a similar vision to John's revelation vision. but if you don't believe me I refer you to Jesus on this.

(Matthew 17:9) . . .And as they were descending from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying: “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of man is raised up from the dead. . .

If Jesus himself calls it a vision why are you saying otherwise?

hi Psacramento

You cannot have it all ways if you are now saying you believe in they are asleep in death then recognised the bible says nothing about the soul being a floaty bit that goes up while the body goes in the grave.

Psalm 16:10 (King James Version)

10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

The Bible is clear it is the soul that is in Sheol/hell/grave.

Mary You keep saying it is the the body in sheol but this scripture is saying Soul not body.

131

Can we trust this website? (About the subject in which Jehovah's Witnesses were a NGO)

by possible-san in

can we trust this website?.

watchtower as a united nations ngo - critical look at the conspiracy theory.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/.

debator

White wash what Thetrueone?

A ten year library pass to the UN department of Information?

Exageration cannot make this is Big terrible conspiracy. It just makes the proponents of this conspiracy theory look ridiculous.

Since both the words share and support are refering to different things grammer doesn't even apply here. The "support" is for the UN itself and the "share" is for the goals not the UN these are two different things.

You cannot back-date current UN policy to cover what they didn't do years ago. You cannot make the fact that the UN in this century decided to make even NGO's of subsiduary departments sit up and say "hail UN" when in the previous century this simply wasn't the case and on record as so.

Hi coffee-black

They weren't "part" of the UN. To this day you have to be a Country literally to be a member of the UN. They simply had membership of it's information department for 10 years. The UN is an authority given powers by the countries that are members of it and has to be dealt with. Paul recognised this fact and used it as a Roman citizen himself. Biblically they have done nothing wrong even if your exagerated opinion and desperate loops makes you want to say otherwise.