Posts by debator

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

This were we have to accept culpability as a whole people. WE Jehovah's witnesses wanted Armageddon on that date then so we went beyond ourselves. This is not "Them and us" Passing the buck to shepherds, it is simply just not taking on responsibility for our own decisions. Hearsay and reading it into wt's that do not mention the date at all, is just silly.

You cannot construct an official doctrine out of hearsay and expectation. (Well you are obviously trying to do exactly this but your Bias is obvious by the way you are going into it, looking for it. Reading into warnings about Armageddon which we do all the time as particularily relating to 1975.

I could use any watchtowers talking about the imminence of Armageddon to construct an argument for every year since they started writing them.

The facts are that we as witnesses think Armageddon could happen now at any time and we need to be ready and on watch for it at all times as we are in the "lasts days" right now.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

Hi little imp

You are confusing the generation teaching with 1975

Like I said if 1975 was an official Armageddon teaching it would be quite definitely in the magazines but it isn't. Trust me, If 1975 was the ex-Jws would be SCREAMING it out on this site. Like I said 1975 is only referenced slighty and definitely not officially as an Armageddon date.

Your husband will have a lot of work and only find the usual references to urgency of being in "end times" when God can bring Armageddon at any time now that Satan is roaming about the earth.

"millions now living" that you talk about is the "generation" expectation that Armageddon would happen within the lifetimes of those that were alive at 1914 so towards the end of the last century this was added to expectancy and yes we had no problem putting this in our watchtowers officially but it needed refining, time showing up the error of this early teaching from our emergence days.

The problem with 1975 accusation is:- that for a very prolific writing religion it is simply not down in black and white to meet the accusations of the people on here.

Did people get over-enthusiatic for that date? yes. Was it an official teaching? No.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

Hi Juan

You say watchtowers and awakes talk about it but none of them have 1975 in as a date for Armageddon in them. They do warn of impending Armageddon which they have from 1900's till now so You are wrong there.

I accept many people (including elders, congregation members and bethel workers etc) got caught up by the 1975 year because it marked something like 6000 years since Adam but there was no official teaching that 1975 was the date for Armageddon.

When a date like 1914 is found using Biblical Chronology we have no problem putting it continuously in our magazines as a definite date. You can probs find mention of 1914 in magazines from nearly every year we've published watchtowers so if 1975 was an official teaching we would have no problem putting it in our magazines but we didn't it is referenced only slightly.

I am a Witness and we know official teachings are written down very definitely and extremely frequently. We are not afraid of writing things down that is not something anyone could accuse us of. What we believe is there for anyone to read. Hense why you get people on here quoting watchtower after watchtower but never on this subject because none exists.

There was an added urgency in those decades because of the "generation" teaching that needed refining since time itself had highlighted the error.

1975 was hopeful thinking by a lot of witnesses and it is sad that many left because of this mistake by men in their enthusiasm but it doesn't negate Jehovah at all he will still bring Armageddon when he deems it the right time.

185

Why did God kill children?

by brotherdan in

the atheists and bible deniers love to talk about how hateful and murderous god is.

i suggest the following.

i believe that the children that were killed in warfare by the israelites were taken to heaven with god.

debator

I think it is wrong to blame God for the actions of mankind. You cannot reject God on one hand then expect him to save your children on the other. Freewill is the acceptance that the choices you make effect not just you but your offspring too.

God will and does lay done further hope for those that die (including children) but it is despite what mankind has done to them not because "God needs another flower for his heavenly Garden" which viewpoint Dan seems to be heading towards which simply isn't supported Biblically.

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

debator

I am wondering at the exageration on here? I remember 1975 as a time that many knew only ones running ahead of themselves truly thought it was Armageddon. We are always getting talks that the end is near from before that day to this. That being said I think those that wanted the reward rather than having a true Faith in Jehovah's promises were weeded out in 1975 for them it was a case of "Armageddon or else I'm leaving" which is very telling.

47

Email I sent to mom after huge fight today

by meangirl in

well my mom and i got into a pretty bad argument today over the phone.

it basically came down to the fact that she couldn't handle what i was saying about the organization, etc and all she could come back to me was that i "hated her?

" i guess i just wanted to share and vent a little too....thanks for letting me do so.. .

debator

All parents bring up their children in their beliefs even if they are a lack of belief. That is simply what parents do! It is part of their responsibility as Parents. If you are catholic you christen your kids catholic and bring them up as Catholics. If you are Atheist you bring them up rejecting God and having "the God delusion" on your shelf for them to read.

What all parents accept is that once children are adults they have to make their own choices. That you now reject witnesses as an Adult is your own choice.

I think it is unfair to say "You were a witness so you shouldn't bring me up as a witness!"

39

How to politely refuse a last chance meeting with the elders?

by bottleofwater in

the elders are giving me a chance to meet up with them a last time in order to try to prevent a disfellowshipping.

one of the elders will call me in two days to see what i think because i told him that i don't want to be in the religion anymore.

how can i politely and painlessly refuse?

debator

You say this from another post....

Post 97 of 115
Since 9/23/2010

My uncle was talking with my Dad just now. I will be disfellowshipped next Friday.

How can you now be given another chance that is not how it works?

34

A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, by BRUCE M. METZGER

by possible-san in

a textual commentary on the greek new testament, by bruce m. metzger.

chm file (e book), 1.25mb.

http://anonym-to.com/?http://rapidshare.com/files/100421737/textual_commentary-greek_new_testament.rar.

debator

hi myelaine

Not just while on earth Jesus remains Gods son in heaven too. Stting on his father's righthand and calling his father "my God" in the revelation vision were he remains separate to God his father. Trinity ignores this.

54

do you think Jehovah, personifies love.

by booby in

the watchtower ?

december 1, 2010 page 5,6 says:.

the ultimate personification of evil, satan stands in bitter opposition to jehovah, who personifies love.. .

debator

Yes he does.

272

Grace According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

by Lily Pie in

hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.

i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.

lutherans say.

debator

Hi deputy Dog

You are mixing two different things.

I have faith in Jehovah and the assurance of salvation through his underserved kindness covering over my imperfection that I simply cannot earn.

But works is separate to this. Jesus and the apostles knew that there would be many people in this time "having a form of Godly devotion" but it will prove false and how do we recognise these? They say they have faith by word but their "works" do not show this in truth.

True Faith inspires works! faith in God's salvation would make it impossible for you not to preach and hope his words saves others as it also reached you.

People that deny "works" are simply realising the inherent lack of faith in themselves knowing it does not push them as it should if it was real faith. But that is between themselves and Jehovah.

At Armageddon (time of the end) the difference between those with true faith in Jehovah and his son's sacrifice and those that have a false faith will be marked and simply by if their works matches what is coming out of their mouths.

Why would a person accept fornication, adultery, idolatry etc if it is unpleasing to their God? They would be fighting against all things unpleasing to God and doing his will because their Faith in Jehovah inspires them towards repentance and righteousness rather than wallowing in sin.