Posts by JT

17

WT Blames Poor JW for any suffering they exp

by JT in

*** w98 8/15 p. 17 strengthening our confidence in gods righteousness ***.

feelings of having suffered needlessly.

6 in the past, some witnesses have suffered for refusing to share in an activity that their conscience now might permit.

JT

i have to agree with all the posters this is one of the most amazing things about high control groups is how they literally take their members for stupid and sad to say, in my opinion due to wanting that fig tree so bad many jw accept the blame on themselves

if you if you do a scan of the cdrom you will find the words

worthlessness, not measuring up, etc are often times mentioned in jw life stories as they relate how they felt they were never running fast enough, jumping high enough, doing enough in serivice for the WT- opps i meant for jehovah- smile

17

WT Blames Poor JW for any suffering they exp

by JT in

*** w98 8/15 p. 17 strengthening our confidence in gods righteousness ***.

feelings of having suffered needlessly.

6 in the past, some witnesses have suffered for refusing to share in an activity that their conscience now might permit.

JT

*** w98 8/15 p. 17 Strengthening Our Confidence in God’s Righteousness ***

Feelings of Having Suffered Needlessly

6 In the past, some Witnesses have suffered for refusing to share in an activity that their conscience now might permit. For example, this might have been their choice years ago as to certain types of civilian service.

A brother might now feel that he could conscientiously perform such without overstepping his Christian neutrality regarding the present system of things.

7 Was it unrighteous on Jehovah’s part to allow him to suffer for rejecting what he now might do without consequences?

###############

now it this is when the wt changed the teaching on alternative service and this was the straw that broke the camels back for me as a jw-

for i had a personal friend and older man who was a mentor for me who went to prison instead of being DF for taking the job at the hospital due to wt rules not god,

he suffered both physical and sexual abuse while in prison as a young kid at the time- all due to wt rules,

now the wt is blaming god as the one who caused my friend to suffer

when in fact it was merely the boys in writing guessing with folks lives.

one of the hallmarks of the wt is to blame the jw for any suffering or pain they have due to following their food from god-

in the case above this entire subheading is dealing with those who feel they suffered needlessly not at the will or hand of god, but due to wt goofy rules and the wt got so much heat that they saw the need to try and write and article to address ths growing undercurrent of those around the world who were/are languishing prisons all around the world

due to being told by the very mouthpc of god that to take that hospital job was to compromise ones faith before god and you wouild be dfed and cut off from the face of god, only to be told '

O we never said that, you did that cause your own conscience was TOO strict:

*** w98 8/15 p. 17 Strengthening Our Confidence in God’s Righteousness ***

9 In modern times, there have been some Witnesses who were very strict in their view of what they would or would not do.

For that reason they suffered more than others. Later, increased knowledge helped them to expand their view of matters.

But they have no reason to regret having earlier acted in harmony with their conscience, even when this possibly brought extra suffering. It truly is commendable that they demonstrated their willingness to suffer in faithfulness to Jehovah (((it should say faithfulness to the WT Society)))

for it had nothing to do with being faithful to god --that is a lie --

and now we see that is the case for today that rule no longer stands, elders no longer df and what was once a sin before god himself is now a conscience matter as

if one is deciding do i want rocky road or butter pecan ice cream

so instead of admitting they gave out unscriptual advice they try to make the person think that what they did brought glory to god- how slick can one get

10

Does an "Eldership" depend on their family's sprituality?

by damselfly in

do elders have to step down when their kids or wives leave the "truth" ?

they always did in my area as it was said if they couldn't shepard their own families then how could they manage the "flock"?.

are men with unbeliving mates typically elected as elders?

JT

I think they make the rules up according to the individual

8888888888

yep

it is up to the CO and the rest of the elders, if they are all friends they will cover for him, but if he has an enemy on the body , he is dead meat

case in point- elder job requires he works nights,

in one hall they are all buddies, in fact i know a congo where my inlaws used to attend, the PO got on nights and the body voted for him to remain and theywould cover any meeting parts neccessary

while in another hall, i have personally known were an elder will approach the CO and says

"you know i am very concerned about the congo impression of the body, since bro PO is missing alot of meeting, he is a good man, but i wonder is it in the bestinterest of the congo

co, well that is a good question, who do you recommend take his place,

well that up to the body, WINK WINK

and the next thing this bro knows is the co is pulling him aside due to him thinking this is a concern in the hall when it may not even be the case, but the other elder raised it in a manner so as to imply, folks are talking and he is "Concerned" yea right

so it all depends on the local body and co

27

Who gets the money?

by Been there in

jw
friends

after reading sevenofnines post i was wondering........who gets the money?.

who at the top (gb) gets to live in extravagant homes, be driven in limos, take fantastic vacations and buy what ever they want?

my stupidity maybe showing but where does the gb live, bethel?

JT

But as far as the Watchtower's money... I think it just goes into the Watchtower. The organization practically has a life of its own. It's like a machine, whose main goal is to sustain itself. (Bring on the Matrix metaphors...)

##########

i have to agree no one gets the "money" as it were, years ago rutherford played with the money, but the way in which all the corps are setup it is nearly impossible for someone to move money around and it is intentionally structured that way

it takes committees to move funds many times , and due to so many guys are literally dyed in the wool society men, but the time you reach the level in the org where you will be allowed to touch funds you have sold your soul to the organization so may times over it ain't funny

the power is more important to these men, case in point, we see LOCAL jw men give up jobs, promotions, etc just to be on a district convention

if a bro was asked to give a talk at the district convention, in the last 50yrs do you know what the percentage of men would have risked their jobs if they were told they could not get that weekend off

so if local elders will risk their jobs for a 20min part due to loyalty to the org, what do you think a guy at bethel who is cared for and taken care of-

keep in mind we are talking about a person who came to bethel at 19 and is 60yrs olds, or a CO who went on the road when he was 30 and now called to bethel, put in a position of being a heavy at bethel and has 30 yrs of "Special Full time service" as it is often called

this guy has wt running thru his veins-

i think about folks like JR Brown, if he announced today that this ain't the truth, he like so many other heavies would be broke, look at ray franz and dunlap, after decades they had nothing to show for it

so for those of you who think that someone is moving $$Millions to some swiss account, in my view i hate to disappoint you

i used to be the circciut accounts overseer and worked in the accounting dept at the district and the level of cks and balances the wt has in place just at that level is unreal, i can only imagaine what it must be like at bethel accounting dept

just my 2

21

WT Prays for LA Storm victims

by JT in

this morning at brooklyn bethel, patterson and wt farms the governing body offered a prayer in behalf of all of the citizens in the la area.

that jehovah provide the needed protection for all citizens who will be impacted.. .

the gb prayed that those who would be risking their lives, such as essential personeel will have the needed strength to help all citizens.. .

JT

Ya got me, you dog! I was thinking, "Wow, that sounds awfully atypical, weird..." Then the punch line!

###########

hey man it was just too good to let it slide

14

Worldly Relatives

by sammielee24 in

jw
friends

while you were a jw how badly did you feel obliged to treat your non jw relatives?

did you not visit with them?

did you keep your kids away from them?

JT

When I was a JW I virtually ignored my "worldly" sisters, nieces, nephews, and their kids, even though they always tried to be nice to me. When I DA'd NOT ONE of them told me that I behaved like an asshole for 20 years. The act like nothing has happened. They were just happy to get me "back". I can't describe the shame I feel at the way I treated them all those years, and I'm at a loss about how to go about making amends.

###################

your exp was mine as well all my nonjw family welcomed me back with open arms

they tell me how sorry they felt for me being 8yrs old dressed up in suit and tie and a briefcase selling wt books every sat in 90 degree heat

in my day we didn't have cute little field service bags, the ony ones were the adult bags and so you have some little kid dragging this huge black adult bag around

30

Update to my meeting with an elder

by Goldminer in

.

first of all,sorry for being so late with my update.my wife got up at 8 am this morning so i didn't have the opportunity to be alone for a while.. as for the meeting last night,the elder was very civil,actually commended me for writing my questions down.he never made threaths,asked me if i read apostate material or if i still considered myself a jw.. we started with the 607 question.he will not believe any research beyond the wt's but said he'd do more research on it(all wt) so i guess that will go no where.he believes that ctr got it right by using the bible so i told him if it was figured out 130 years ago,it should be very simple to explain today.the only time he looked stunned was when i showed him from the wt that they once believed that jesus' presence began in 1874.he said he had never read that and tried to walk around it even when i asked him if jehovah wanted his people to believe something that wasn't true.. we beat around a few other questions with nothing concrete coming out of it.he did take my list home with him and said he'd look at them more carefully to get some scriptural answers.i also got the feeling that my wife got a spiritual boost from his visit which was very disheartening to me.anyways,i'm going to work on this 607 thing and see how things go.my wife asked me if i felt like we got somewhere and i said no.beibg told that something is the truth just because the wt says so just doesn't convince me anymore.. i'm attaching my questions,hopefully they show up here.thanks everybody,i feel really down,like i'm wasting my time.i've been wanting to run from this religion for years and here i am still fighting to prove my points.. goldminer.

p.s.-question files won't load-sorry.

JT

*** w72 1/1 31-2 Questions from Readers ***
Questions from Readers
? Do homosexual acts on the part of a married person constitute a
Scriptural ground for divorce, freeing the innocent mate to
remarry?—U.S.A.

Homosexuality is definitely condemned in the Bible as something
that will prevent individuals from gaining God’s approval. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) However, whether an innocent mate would Scripturally be able to remarry after procuring a legal divorce from a mate guilty of homosexual acts must be determined on the basis of what the Bible says respecting divorce and remarriage.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus Christ said: “Everyone
divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication,
makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” (Matt. 5:32) On a later occasion he told the Pharisees: “Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.”—Matt. 19:9.
Thus “fornication” is seen to be the only ground for
divorce that frees the innocent mate to remarry.

The Greek word for fornication is porneía. It can refer
to illicit sexual relations between either married or
unmarried persons. The ancient Greeks, in rare instances,
may have understood this term to denote acts other than illicit
sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. But the sense in which
Jesus used the word porneía at Matthew 5:32 and ?Mt ?19:9 must be
ascertained from the context.

It should be noted that in Matthew chapters 5 and 19 “fornication”
is used in the restricted sense of marital unfaithfulness, or
illicit relations with another person not one’s marriage mate.
Just before bringing up the matter of divorce in the Sermon on
the Mount, Jesus Christ pointed out that “everyone [married] that
keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has
already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matt. 5:28)
Consequently, when he afterward alluded to a woman’s committing
fornication, his listeners would have understood this in its
relative sense, namely, as signifying a married woman’s prostitution
or adultery.

The context of Matthew chapter 19 confirms this conclusion.
On the basis of the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus pointed out that a man

and his wife became “one flesh,” and then added: “What God has yoked
together let no man put apart.” (Matt. 19:5, 6) Now, in homosexual
acts the sex organs are used in an unnatural way, in a way for which
they were never purposed. Two persons of the same sex are not
complements of each other, as Adam and Eve were. They could
never become “one flesh” in order to procreate. It might be added,
in the case of human copulation with a beast, two different kinds of
flesh are involved. Wrote the apostle Paul: “Not all flesh is the same
flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of
cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of
fish.”—1 Cor. 15:39.

While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting
perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken.
It is broken only by acts that make an individual “one flesh” with
a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage

mate.

30

Update to my meeting with an elder

by Goldminer in

.

first of all,sorry for being so late with my update.my wife got up at 8 am this morning so i didn't have the opportunity to be alone for a while.. as for the meeting last night,the elder was very civil,actually commended me for writing my questions down.he never made threaths,asked me if i read apostate material or if i still considered myself a jw.. we started with the 607 question.he will not believe any research beyond the wt's but said he'd do more research on it(all wt) so i guess that will go no where.he believes that ctr got it right by using the bible so i told him if it was figured out 130 years ago,it should be very simple to explain today.the only time he looked stunned was when i showed him from the wt that they once believed that jesus' presence began in 1874.he said he had never read that and tried to walk around it even when i asked him if jehovah wanted his people to believe something that wasn't true.. we beat around a few other questions with nothing concrete coming out of it.he did take my list home with him and said he'd look at them more carefully to get some scriptural answers.i also got the feeling that my wife got a spiritual boost from his visit which was very disheartening to me.anyways,i'm going to work on this 607 thing and see how things go.my wife asked me if i felt like we got somewhere and i said no.beibg told that something is the truth just because the wt says so just doesn't convince me anymore.. i'm attaching my questions,hopefully they show up here.thanks everybody,i feel really down,like i'm wasting my time.i've been wanting to run from this religion for years and here i am still fighting to prove my points.. goldminer.

p.s.-question files won't load-sorry.

JT

6

Hurricane Katrina, Heeding Warnings: Lessons for Armageddon?

by Oroborus21 in

jw
friends

why do people not heed warnings when the evidence is clear that disaster is not only possible but highly probable?

are people so arrogant that they think that "it can't happen to them"?.

"get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.".

JT

excellent point , many humans despite facts, evidence, proof and documentation continue to hold on to their viewpoint, even if evidence show other wise-

I often think of jw-

i recall telling 2 elders i knew personally for years the wt was connected to the UN and they all called me a Liar to my face and proceeded to quote practically every article the wt has written about the UN as proof that the wt would never sit at the same table with other religions sucking on the breast of the UN for help-

then i told them to ck it out for yourselves, at this time the UN still had the wt listed as a ngo member on their web site. afterward both of these men who i had viewed as reasonable men made a 180 degree switch

after telling me all the SCritprual reasons based on the of publications-- why the wt would never connect up with the UN- they did the flip flop and starting making Excuses as to why It was OK to be connected to the UN-

it remained me of a Network meeting i had with the CIO once

i made a suggestion,-- this other dude who was like the right hand man of the CIO--shot it down and almost called me a stupid fool in front of everyone, i was so embarassed.

after it went around the table the CIO sat there and said, all you all presented good points, but i think that JACE offered the best practicle solutions

and this guy, made a complete about face and stated in affect "Yea jace does have a good idea"

and to the CIO credit, he didn't let it slide and commented to the affect of :

"I thoght you said jace idea was no good"

afterward everyone came up to me and was like -

could you believe that guy, the minute he saw the positon of the CIO he did a flip flop

the mere fact that any jw who is caught by his elders, or co reading this post or posting to it can be brought up on judical charges is so revealling about this religion

in many of my college classes i have share with nonjw what would happpen to any jw caught on this site and others talking to former members

i have never met a nonjw who could believe that grown men and women have to sneek around under the cover of darkness just to partipate in a biblical discussion board

Ask any of your co-workers:

Did you know that if a jw is found out to be dialogging with former members on the Net he puts himself at risk of a judical matter and losing gods favor?

try it on monday and see how many nonjw even know that jw are under such Edict

21

WT Prays for LA Storm victims

by JT in

this morning at brooklyn bethel, patterson and wt farms the governing body offered a prayer in behalf of all of the citizens in the la area.

that jehovah provide the needed protection for all citizens who will be impacted.. .

the gb prayed that those who would be risking their lives, such as essential personeel will have the needed strength to help all citizens.. .

JT

You're so right.... and it's so sad

i recall folks asking me out in service to come in a pray with them and like most jw i know - to pray for a nonjw is awkward and very uncomfortable, despite representing the only channel to god

we could never mention the suffering of others in any Public prayer as an elder co or do

yet we called ourselvs christains