jamiebowers: I will be careful- It's very difficult though; I'm just so frustrated at how they have been so... brainwashed that they circumvent logic. Whenver I do come up with something they can't refute they either give an answer that they KNOW doesn't sound right, or they just skip it all together, just ignoring it.
Thanks for looking out for me. I really do need to keep my head together.
mentallyfree: "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world,’ even announcing a specific date .... Yet, nothing happened. The ‘end’ did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? ... Missing from such
people were God’s truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them" (Awake, 10-8-68, p. 23)
Perfect; this is exactly the stuff that we need- an irrefutable form of conflicting logic, in print. I can work from there- I need something that I can firmly back and report as research STRAIGHT from the watchtower. Since they only listen to what the watchtower says, it seems I can only argue from that avenue. Doing this will help subdue apprehension for fear of "apostate influence" and "independent thinking". It's almost as if my parents were programmed to reply with these buzz-words lol- they specifically mention these phrases, repeatedly!
confliction
JoinedPosts by confliction
-
64
Help with irrefutable arguments- creating dissonance
by confliction inhello- i'm arguing with my parents now... well, call it debating.
i'm trying to give them a question they'll actually think about- something that will make them want to do more research.
a question (or questions), that if right, will make them reconsider whether they are in the "truth".... .
-
-
confliction
-
64
Help with irrefutable arguments- creating dissonance
by confliction inhello- i'm arguing with my parents now... well, call it debating.
i'm trying to give them a question they'll actually think about- something that will make them want to do more research.
a question (or questions), that if right, will make them reconsider whether they are in the "truth".... .
-
-
confliction
Hello- I'm arguing with my parents now... well, call it debating. I'm trying to give them a question they'll actually think about- something that will make them WANT to do more research. A question (or questions), that if right, will make them reconsider whether they are in the "truth"...
I'm trying to get them to ask themselves to think harder. Mainly, I brought out the point of how can you actually prove that WE have the holy spirit? They always come up with an excuse, but I don't think they're getting the point, because every answer they come up with just digs them into a hole.For example, they said "Well who else has unity like our brothers and sisters? We could only have this with the help of the holy spirit". I said that they couldn't say that, because scientologists and mormons have that same "unity" ( I didn't want to say "cult").
They then said, "Well what about the fruitages of the spirit?". I, again referencing to Mormons and some other "religions" like us (more cults) weren't that much different- they just didn't teach the same stuff.Then my dad told me how "We're the only ones who use god's name. The bible even says that his people would use his name and be his witnesses."
The problem with that, as I told him, is that we named OURSELVES, and it's waaay after the fact. It's like me saying that my next conversation will be with a guy named bob, and then a random guy changes his name to bob to fit the bill.Now they're encouraging me to do "research", which involves only learning things through WT publications. I tried pointing out the flaw in that, but because I always stopped short of calling WT liars, I couldn't get the logic across that it IS possible they could be wrong.
I told my father that the only real proof that they're backed by Jesus is because they said so, and that technically ANYONE could do that.
So yeah, the arguments I'm trying to use just aren't getting through- I need something that will... fester.To all brothers / sisters who were what you would call "Strong" in the truth (a.k.a. elders, M.S., pioneers), what was the first doubt that made you start questioning more and more?
-
4
Rutherford and Russel were SPIN DOCTORS?!
by confliction inin public relations, spin is a form of propaganda, achieved through providing an interpretation of an event or campaign to persuade public opinion in favor or against a certain organization or public figure.
while traditional public relations may also rely on creative presentation of the facts, "spin" often, though not always, implies disingenuous, deceptive and/or highly manipulative tactics.[1].
politicians are often accused by their opponents of claiming to be honest and seek the truth while using spin tactics to manipulate public opinion.. because of the frequent association between "spin" and press conferences (especially government press conferences), the room in which these take place is sometimes described as a spin room.
-
-
confliction
At Mythbuster: Nah, I was just being funny- I was searching some stuff about decision making psychology and cognitive analysis and I found this- sounds kind of like it narrates Rutherford....
-
11
**2nd REQUEST**- Audio Download of 2010 US District Convention? Anyone??
by AMNESIANO inafter checking back several times and receiving zero responses i'm unable to locate my first request.
i particularly need saturday.. thanks.. amnesiancaptive 7/1972-2/2001.
-
-
confliction
I'm going to the DC in a month or two... I can probably get a hold of it and upload it as mp3's or something, online.
-
4
Rutherford and Russel were SPIN DOCTORS?!
by confliction inin public relations, spin is a form of propaganda, achieved through providing an interpretation of an event or campaign to persuade public opinion in favor or against a certain organization or public figure.
while traditional public relations may also rely on creative presentation of the facts, "spin" often, though not always, implies disingenuous, deceptive and/or highly manipulative tactics.[1].
politicians are often accused by their opponents of claiming to be honest and seek the truth while using spin tactics to manipulate public opinion.. because of the frequent association between "spin" and press conferences (especially government press conferences), the room in which these take place is sometimes described as a spin room.
-
-
confliction
In public relations, spin is a form of propaganda, achieved through providing an interpretation of an event or campaign to persuade public opinion in favor or against a certain organization or public figure. While traditional public relations may also rely on creative presentation of the facts, "spin" often, though not always, implies disingenuous, deceptive and/or highly manipulative tactics. [ 1 ]
Politicians are often accused by their opponents of claiming to be honest and seek the truth while using spin tactics to manipulate public opinion.
Because of the frequent association between "spin" and press conferences (especially government press conferences), the room in which these take place is sometimes described as a spin room. A group of people who develop spin may be referred to as "spin doctors" who engage in "spin doctoring" for the person or group that hired them. [ 2 ]
The techniques of spin include:
- Selectively presenting facts and quotes that support one's position (cherry picking)
- Non-denial denial
- Phrasing in a way that assumes unproven truths
- Euphemisms to disguise or promote one's agenda
- "Burying bad news": announcing one popular thing at the same time as several unpopular things, hoping that the media will focus on the popular one.
Edward Bernays has been called the "Father of Spin". In his book he describes some situations in twentieth-century America where tobacco and alcohol companies used techniques to make certain behaviors more socially acceptable. Bernays was proud of his work as a propagandist. [ 3 ]
Another spin technique involves the delay in the release of bad news so it can be hidden in the "shadow" of more important or favorable news or events. A famous reference to this practice occurred when UK government press officer Jo Moore used the phrase It's now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury in an email sent on September 11, 2001, following the attacks on the World Trade Center. [ 4 ] When this email was reported in the press it caused widespread outrage for which Moore was forced to apologize. [ 5 ] She was later made to resign when it was claimed she had sent a similar email following the death of Princess Margaret. [ 6 ]
In the United States public affairs dealing with military contacts during the beginning of the War in Iraq used a spin tactic. Several parts of U.S. military wanted to hire PR firms to send out fabricated or misleading information to get a rise in the public approval of the war. Some officials did not want to join information officers with public affairs officers for the fear of undermining the military's credibility. This form of spin uses the tactic of blowing small circumstances out of proportion to get a certain reaction from the public. [ 7 ]
Skilled practitioners of spin are sometimes called "spin doctors". It is the PR equivalent of calling a writer a "hack." The first spin doctor was the father of public relations --Edward Bernays. Alastair Campbell, was involved with Tony Blair's public relations between 1994 and 2003 as his spin doctor, and also played a controversial role as press relations officer to the British and Irish Lionsrugby union side during their 2005 tour of New Zealand. More recently Peter Mandelson & Alastair Campbell, have become widely regarded as the previous Government's "spin doctors".
State or corporate run media in many countries also engage in spin by only allowing news stories that are favorable to the government and encouraging vigourous debate of trivial criticisms while serious criticisms remain unmentionable.
-
4
The boldly stupid remain so while those not so inclined act with undue restraint
by gubberningbody ininteresting study..... .
the dunningkruger effect is a cognitive bias in which "people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it.
"[1] the unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority.
-
-
confliction
This is very interesting- I know that ever since I've been attending meetings (i'm a born-in) I always had an inferiority complex. Whenever those around me would say something completely stupid, I restrained myself from correcting them, for fear of reprimand- possibly because of being younger.
This study explains a lot.
-
9
The real story on why The Watchtower society lost a Kingdom hall in Bonham ,Texas.!
by koolaid-man inwhat happened in bonham, texas?
: the body of elders and the majority of the congregation decided to leave the watch tower organization.
and with that, they took the kingdom hall.
-
-
confliction
Interesting...
Could somebody document (record) this entire dialogue? It could be posted on youtube, and make any claims thereafter that much more credible.
-
11
How to Protect Your Faith, and 30 Proofs of God's Existence
by gubberningbody intherefore, god exists.
therefore, god exists.
therefore, god exists.
-
-
confliction
Ahhh; sweet satire.
-
12
A question
by dgp inas a worldly, i realize that, if i were to say something about the watchtower, it would almost always be something that i learned from someone else.
i have few personal experiences of what the wt is like.. the words of ray franz, for example, were a different matter.
he knew the beast from inside, to a level few other witnesses knew it.
-
-
confliction
For every one influential gentleman that passes, one hundred more will stand in his place.
If the forum doesn't get passed on, there will always be someone who will make a new one- and hopefully salvage the information stored here.The truth does not die.
-
11
So there was this duck...
by confliction inone fine saturday morning you're sleeping in, when the doorbell rings.. to your surprise, when you answer the door, it's- you guessed it- a duck.. so the duck tells you, "hello, my name is mallard.
i talk to jesus so you should listen to me because the world will end in 10 seconds.".
you say to the duck, "interesting...", you say.. 3 minutes pass while the duck is hiding his cross, child abuse papers, and freemason symbols.... .
-
-
confliction
Omg I'm laughing so hard lol. quite the comedienne