confliction

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Posts by confliction

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  64

  Help with irrefutable arguments- creating dissonance

  by confliction in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello- i'm arguing with my parents now... well, call it debating.

  i'm trying to give them a question they'll actually think about- something that will make them want to do more research.

  a question (or questions), that if right, will make them reconsider whether they are in the "truth".... .

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  confliction

  Somebody give SweetBabyCheezits a gold medal or something - whoah.
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  9

  A beginner's thanks...

  by confliction in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know i only posted on the board 8 days ago- a little over a week.. at the beginning of this week, i went from hopeless and depressed, feeling like i had no way out.. .

  but throughout the course of 8 days, i have been shown kindness that i haven't seen in years.. i have been reached out to in ways i didn't even know was possible.. in a little over 8 days, i went from feeling alone in a dark abyss of a world, to having an entire support group, that i know cares about me and understands me and exactly how i think and feel.. in one week, i have mustered up the courage to speak up to a friend who i have known for half my life, but was too afrait to tell about my doubts.. i have come to realize that, he, too is planning to leave this organization- never telling me because of fear i would reject him- and likewise for me.. i just wanted to notify all who have helped, that you will not be forgotten- i would have never imagined this much support when i first submitted my account information one month ago, unsure about my entire life.. .

  i don't know how else to put this, so i will put it rather frankly:.

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  confliction

  I know I only posted on the board 8 days ago- a little over a week.
  At the beginning of this week, I went from hopeless and depressed, feeling like I had no way out.
  
  But throughout the course of 8 days, I have been shown kindness that I haven't seen in years.
  I have been reached out to in ways I didn't even know was possible.

  In a little over 8 days, I went from feeling alone in a dark abyss of a world, to having an entire support group, that I know cares about me and understands me and exactly how I think and feel.

  In one week, I have mustered up the courage to speak up to a friend who I have known for half my life, but was too afrait to tell about my doubts.
  I have come to realize that, he, too is planning to leave this organization- never telling me because of fear I would reject him- and likewise for me.

  I just wanted to notify all who have helped, that you will not be forgotten- I would have never imagined this much support when I first submitted my account information one month ago, unsure about my entire life.
  
  I don't know how else to put this, so I will put it rather frankly:

  To the many here involved in assisting me to freedom (even ones who may not know me), Thank you. I appreciate you more than you may think, assuredly. :)
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  10

  Service is mathematically and logically pointless.

  by confliction in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so, i was thinking today about the point of service, other than the proclamations the king and his kingdom (bs :p ) and i kind of had an epiphany... but i'm sure somebody has already thought of this.

  first, for people who never hear the 'truth', or never come to a true accurate understanding of it, they will most likely have odds in favor of them surviving into the paradise earth to get a second chance.

  let's say the odds are 99% survival.. .

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  confliction

  LOL I don't think you guys are getting what I'm saying, haha, but whatever.
  
  I was simply making an argument against the many brothers and sisters that try to avoid the teaching that all will die in the end except witnesses.
  
  I well know that the preaching work is viewed as a lifesaving work, and it is seen as a commandment, but many witnesses will stop short of saying "you will die if you don't listen to me". This is simply a reply to those who try to weasel their way out of their teaching with the unspoken idea that "jehovah will judge their heart condition", referring to those who are possibly mentally challenged, or those who never had a chance to know the 'truth'.
  
  By saying that in the end their hearts will be judged basically makes the service work pointless, because God would know who's actually bad and who is not. Offering them the truth, though, on this pretense actually presents them with a choice, and because they now have a choice, their odds of survival through plea of ignorance are now lowered... do you get what I mean? LOL nevermind it wasn't that big of an idea anyways, don't fret over it lol.
• 
  10

  Service is mathematically and logically pointless.

  by confliction in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so, i was thinking today about the point of service, other than the proclamations the king and his kingdom (bs :p ) and i kind of had an epiphany... but i'm sure somebody has already thought of this.

  first, for people who never hear the 'truth', or never come to a true accurate understanding of it, they will most likely have odds in favor of them surviving into the paradise earth to get a second chance.

  let's say the odds are 99% survival.. .

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  confliction

  LOOOL Good point- I'm working off of what they deny though lol - obviously no witness would admit that everyone but them will die at armageddon, so they say "its in jehovah's hands to judge" or some crap.
  
  PLEASE don't shoot me lol- I still have to go out!
• 
  10

  Service is mathematically and logically pointless.

  by confliction in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so, i was thinking today about the point of service, other than the proclamations the king and his kingdom (bs :p ) and i kind of had an epiphany... but i'm sure somebody has already thought of this.

  first, for people who never hear the 'truth', or never come to a true accurate understanding of it, they will most likely have odds in favor of them surviving into the paradise earth to get a second chance.

  let's say the odds are 99% survival.. .

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  confliction

  So, I was thinking today about the point of service, other than the proclamations the king and his kingdom (bs :p ) and I kind of had an epiphany... but I'm sure somebody has already thought of this. Let me explain.
  
  First, for people who never hear the 'truth', or never come to a true accurate understanding of it, they will most likely have odds in favor of them surviving into the paradise earth to get a second chance. Let's say the odds are 99% survival.

  On the flipside, by attempting to preach to people and teach them your "truth", you put it in their hands to make a decision. By doing so, their odds are lessened to a less appealing... you could say 50%.
  
  
  So, by not sharing your "truth" with others, it seems that you could save more lives than trying to speak and lessen their chances of survival with knowledge. The old addage "what you don't know won't hurt you" comes to mind.
  
  Of course, my mother said that "jesus commanded us to preach the word", and while that could be misapplied today by the society to pass out their literature and "truth", you could consider it a sacrifice on your part- saving countless lives, while in the process of dying because of disobeying a command. Giving up your life for all others.
  
  On the other hand, your speaking to others while knowing the above reasoning just shows a selfishness on your part, for YOU want to attain to YOUR prize of everlasting life, rather than possibly save countless people the world over by SACRIFICING your own life.
  
  As an added bonus, you might be found as a good person for doing so, and survive ANYWAYS.
  
  To shuttup or not to shuttup... Thoughts?
• 
  64

  Help with irrefutable arguments- creating dissonance

  by confliction in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello- i'm arguing with my parents now... well, call it debating.

  i'm trying to give them a question they'll actually think about- something that will make them want to do more research.

  a question (or questions), that if right, will make them reconsider whether they are in the "truth".... .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  confliction

  Well I appreciate that you have assumed that I have severed all ties with the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses ®, I, in fact have NOT. I have been born into, and raised within this religion, and I well know not just the teachings, but also implied, or rather unspoken rules.
  
  And you are right in noticing cases of unfair coercion. It takes relatively little biblical knowledge to be baptized, and begin advertising the Watchtower and Awake magazines, or other books like the bible teach book. What I see in the bible teach is more of a preparation of rules, or programming, if you will; to set one up for passing questions for baptism. Furthermore, children born into the religion rarely have an easy choice regarding making their own life decisions and conclusions, when influence by a cultic, group mentality.
  
  It would seem that more insight and study into, not only the bible, but examining historical documents pertaining to biblical chronology and so forth should also be important to come to an "Accurate knowlegde" of the real truth. Relatively very few in the congregation realize, nor take this step to further their knowledge. By stopping to take time to prioritize looking deeper into the word of God, they are looked upon as a weaker individual in the congregation, because they have not taken steps to advance in the congregation. It seems that hierarchy is a determining factor in how much you love jehovah- learning for yourself and then teaching others is not enough. You must do it with the society's books, the society's magazines, and the society's brochures, whether you see things in them that are incorrect or not. Eventually, if your study wants to progress in the truth, you will have to convince them to give up their king james bible because "ours is much more accurate", not telling them that it was translated by men who had no bacground in the actual languages it was translated from, except brother Franz, who only knew one of the two.
  
  So you say that you don't need to be a scholar, yet you also state, frankly, that our society is uninspired? So our bible could have many issues within it... is that why many people who are trained in those languages to translate, don't even approve of our rendition of the original texts?
  Or is it because every educated biblical scholar in the world except Jehovah's Witnesses is controlled by satan, and are out to get us?
  
  We spend more of our time in bethel hammering out law cases and legalistically explaining the bible to fit our agenda, rather than sitting down for a minute to actually examine our own doctrine. Have you looked into the trinity doctrine yourself, at least to see why so many people feel they understand it? I went door to door only saying what things like the Trinity brochure had to say about the trinity, making it appear more confusing than it actually was. But when you look at our translation, it looks like important scriptures that normally would have supported the trinity were purposely manipulated otherwise to support the preixisting idea of a singular deity. I don't care if some scriptures do support the trinitarian doctrine or not, but you do not add to the bible what isn't there, under any circumstances, whether under the guise of good motive or bad.
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  64

  Help with irrefutable arguments- creating dissonance

  by confliction in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello- i'm arguing with my parents now... well, call it debating.

  i'm trying to give them a question they'll actually think about- something that will make them want to do more research.

  a question (or questions), that if right, will make them reconsider whether they are in the "truth".... .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  confliction

  djeggnog: I see what you are trying to do here, but there is a problem with it.
  
  First, off, if you are currently part of the Organization, and as assigned by the organization, are a baptized and so-called ordained Minister, then you well know that you are mixing in company with what you yourself would define as apostates. You know that what you are doing is what the Organization defines as a sin, and this sing is almost equal to that of fornication. The organization, has, on multiple occasions told witnesses not to debate with apostates, yet you yourself are disobeying that order. Keep that in mind.

  Secondly, in your first comment, basically what you implied by the illustration, was that the organization just looks wrong, for the time being, because there are people saying it is. You then imply that there is no evidence for this, and that soon we will all be proven wrong in our assumptions via "exoneration". I presume that this exoneration is in the form of armageddon, correct?
  
  Well, the organization now defines as a generation those 'touched' by the truth. But if you examine the REAL definition of the english, and original word generation, as used in the referenced scripture in the book of matthew, which states that this is a literal word for a generation whose gap usually around 30 - 33 years, then that means that only those that were around 33 years old, or younger could be counted among this "generation". Also, generation implies a group of people within the same range of age. By saying that this generation shall not pass until the end, Jesus implies that the majority of the people within that age range would not die before the end. Most, if not all of those people are dead.
  I know of nobody that has actually seen Russell in person, nor many- if any- who have seen and heard the talks as far back as the 1920's and 30's.

  To legalistically stretch the definition of an english word- ignoring the definition of the actual word as in the original texts (yes, I HAVE researched the word in multiple interlinear translations, and checked the meaning of the word in BOTH languages)- is nothing less than stretching the truth of said word. Besides that, the new world translation has on multiple occasions separated what it meant by using the plural, "generations", rather than the singular. Pleas stop giving irrelevant and overcomplicated explanations in your defense of what you call the truth- it just shows an attempt to elude others to try to convince them whatever you say must be right because you give the pretense of insight.
  
  Also, have you ever wondered why the Organization has more qualified law students than it does bible scholars? Something to think about...
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  22

  Recomend movies for ex JWs?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would be interested, these might be inspiring movies or maybe movies that we were never allowed to watch as jws?.

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  confliction

  How about......

  .....ALL OF THEM!

  Lol, but seriously, I like American Beauty- it's... a different perspective on things.
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  4

  Is it even possible to prove the existence of free will? Certainly it is assumed, but that hardly presents a 'proof'.

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  without "free will" , there can be no evil, if by evil we mean an entity has the ability to undertand what good is, and then freely chooses its opposite.. that so, then what?.

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  confliction

  It's interesting to think about this- I've spent many of times wondering if everything around us is nothing more than a physics playground, and how we may only be under the illusory impression that we have true freedom of will.
  
  It would seem that by current scientific laws, our four (some say 5?) dimensions are the only ones that we have, and this is what makes up our physical world. If this is correct than all physical particles are just in an spectacular ballay of the physical forces- nothing more.
  
  But, something I am looking forward to, is the studies revealed by the Large Hadron Collider, aka LHC. Through their scientific approach at analyzing in never previously accomplished detail, one of the things they are wanting to see is if our physical particles are in any way influence by another dimension- call it the dimension of "free will", if you want. By analyzing the data from the LHC, it is expected to see a so-called "glimpse" of this other dimension, that can be traced by the studying of the after-effects of particular collision.
  
  I'm not a scientist and I probably have my facts wrong anyways lol- but you get the drift I hope...
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  64

  Help with irrefutable arguments- creating dissonance

  by confliction in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello- i'm arguing with my parents now... well, call it debating.

  i'm trying to give them a question they'll actually think about- something that will make them want to do more research.

  a question (or questions), that if right, will make them reconsider whether they are in the "truth".... .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  confliction

  I want to thank all of you for both your advice (some of it, quite insensitive...) and your warnings.
  
  As for questioning parents, I understand that I have a lot to risk in doing this, but my issue is not losing my family...
  I am currently evaluating what the right course is.
  
  It's a bit of a russian roulette game, but the difference is that this is theoretically calculable and manipulable towards my favor.
  
  My parent's, from an honest standpoint, don't have many more years left on theirs side. My father is getting close to 70, and my
  mother has just started in her sixties.I, as any good-hearted person, want them to die happy. But on the other side, (and understanding
  that I now see myself as agnostic) this is the only life I have, and it would be a shame to waste half of it to something so vain.
  It really hurts- on one side, I want my folks to understand the truth about the "truth"... but on the other side, I don't want them
  to die without having some form of comfort.
  
  I feel tempted not to say this but I feel that it is necessary - but I am frankly more intelligent and more understanding when it
  comes to analyzing things from a logical standpoint than they. I don't believe in demons, I don't believe that God, if he exists, is actually
  interacting with people and guiding them with any true purpose.
  This is my opinion that I am entitled to, mind you, and I ask that you respect that.
  
  The fact is, my parents just don't have the mental capacity to grasp what I understand; what I know. And because of this, I know that even if
  I were to get them to realize this was all a lie, they would come to the conclusions that any and every one else has been through. That is, withdrawal of a cultic mindset. I can't be happy knowing that I took away this future my parents thought they had for over 35 years...
  I'm sure you can contemplate how that may feel.
  So I'm really just going through a debate right now about how far I really want to take this, in regards to my parents.
  
  The reason I want the argument, though, is that I want my parents to understand my decisions. I don't want to leave them in the dark, thinking
  that if I leave it's because of a girl, or some temptation like drugs (which they believe the 'world' is all about, of course).
  They can't see a life without the bible- they can't understand that a person devoid of god can still have morals.
  
  That, just because you doubt the existence of a deity, that you can't still siphon the bits of wisdom the bible does have to offer, and apply those
  in your life.

  Nevertheless, the entire ordeal is something to truly ponder over and meditate on.
  
  Steve2: I can see the wisdom in what you're saying, but if you were ever a witness then you'll know ever situation when leaving is different, and much more complex than anyone but you yourself could possibly comprehend and evaluate.
  
  As much as I would love to go commando and just 'cut my losses', I need more time to compare other options. As much as I would love to just fade out of this nightmare, I know that odds are that eventually I will have to face the reality of losing people I love. It's rumor that elders must now contact people that fade at all costs, and define the line, so to speak (This, coming from LuciousVBogeymanProd on youtube...).
  
  I think people are already beginning to avoid me, and I see the elders watching me more than usual... it hurts to see what's in store. And I can't do a damn thing about it...
  
  ...god.

  I'll keep keep peeps updated though- keep in touch you all.