I think the percentage will vary depending on the region/country. I suspect the PIMO % is significantly higher in areas where levels of income and education are higher. In those areas, I wouldn't be surprised if the self-acknowledged PIMOs are 10-15%, followed by another 5-10% who would be PIMO, except they check their brains at the door or knowingly or unknowingly don't test their beliefs to simply avoid complicating their thoughts or lives.
respectful_observer
JoinedPosts by respectful_observer
-
32
How many are PIMO ??
by Phizzy ini know we cannot answer this, how many are physically in, mentally out (pimo), but i heard an amazing piece of news the other day.. an ex-p.o and ex-elder, a long time regular pioneer, and when i knew him a stalwart believer, went for a drink with another jw who has actually left, but is not df or anything.. in the course of conversation he came out with this bombshell "well, i am actually an atheist now, i just go along to keep my wife happy".. i also heard of a number of youngsters that i know personally who are simply living their life as they want, whilst making sure they don't get df'd for family and social reasons.. if as it seems the pimo's are a huge number, could there be a huge " awakening" where they all realize they are in a huge group, and they all say " eff it, lets call it a day on all the jw s**t ".
?.
wishful thinking, but.....just possible ?.
-
-
-
36
2018 Regional Convention program available on JW.borg
by sir82 inhttps://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/convention-program-2018/.
friday.
be courageous and very strong”—joshua 1:7
-
-
respectful_observer
I can't wait for Saturday afternoon's symposium on how animals show courage, especially the
MongooseHoney Badger:1:50 SYMPOSIUM: Learn Courage From Creation
MongoosesHoney Badger (Psalm 91:3, 13-15)Leaked 3 minute video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg
-
34
Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?
by respectful_observer incurious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?
it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.
you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).
-
-
respectful_observer
The first two points under article 17 says that the data should be erased unless,
1. the personal data are no longer necessary in relation to the purposes for which they were collected or otherwise processed;That casts a pretty wide net for the WT to use. I agree with other posters that this is what the WT will likely use to justify maintaining historical data on current and former members forever and I suspect the courts will be hesitant to challenge them on that.
To me, the most impactful element of GDPR will be the obligation to disclose, and obtain written consent initially and then periodically thereafter.
-
34
Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?
by respectful_observer incurious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?
it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.
you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).
-
-
respectful_observer
GDPR definition of consent:
(11) 'consent' of the data subject means any freely given, specific, informed and unambiguous indication of the data subject's wishes by which he or she, by a statement or by a clear affirmative action, signifies agreement to the processing of personal data relating to him or her;
=> Article: 6, 7, 8
=> Recital: 32, 33, 38, 42, 43
=> Dossier: ConsentIn a recent GDPR session I attended (having nothing to do with impact to religious institutions) one of the facilitators made the comment that when it came to "special" or "sensitive categories" of data, GDPR's bar for what qualified as "consent" was much higher. She said (paraphrasing) that when it came to religion, race, etc. data, "consent" would require more than simply implied consent. Even a "check the box"/"I agree" would not be sufficient to serve as "consent". Additionally, it was mentioned that the consent given had a shelf life-- that GDPR would expect the controller of the data to seek renewal of that consent at least every 5 years.
If what I heard was correct, the WT's current privacy policy's definition of consent comes nowhere near meeting the bar set by GDPR.
-
34
Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?
by respectful_observer incurious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?
it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.
you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).
-
-
respectful_observer
It would be interesting if some EU-based journalist who's had some experience with J-dub policies and records in the past (most likely child abuse) decided to do a story on this and make official press inquiries of the WT.
I doubt most PIMI JWs ever think about how much more personal data the Org really keeps and circulates on members than the average religion.
I'm assuming most faiths might track name of members, what parish/congregation they attend, maybe baptism/wedding dates if the church is involved. Probably not much more than that, unless there are tax issues related to contributions.
Compare that with the JWs: DOB, baptism dates, letters of introduction if moving between congregations, JC notes, notification of judicial action to the Branch, monthly service report data, applications for and letters of recommendation for LDC, Bethel, etc., letters of appointment, emergency contacts, copies of Blood Cards, records/notes on elders who are convention/assembly speakers, etc., etc....
If the WT does have to disclose in writing to each publisher what records they actually keep, why they keep them, and who sees them, that might be rather eye opening to many.
-
34
Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?
by respectful_observer incurious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?
it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.
you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).
-
-
respectful_observer
Hi all,
Curious if any of our EU-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official WT channels on how the Organisation plans to be in compliance with GDPR ("General Data Protection Regulations") by May 2018?
It's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.
Specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:
- You must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it)
- The individual must provide their written explicit consent that they agree to have the entity retain their data in the manner disclosed. Any changes to the terms require new consent from the individual
- Data collection must be proportional (i.e., only necessary data may be collected and can only be used for what you've previously disclosed to the individual)
- You can only keep the data as long as absolutely necessary, and must delete afterward. (e.g., even if a person demands deletion of their data, the organisation may be required to retain certain data points such as financial/tax data attached to a contribution)
- The individual must have: rights of access to all their data, the ability to correct it, and object to it
- The individual must have the "Right to be Forgotten" (i.e., they must be able to dictate that all their data be permanently erased
Congregations keep Publisher Cards and Judicial files forever; COs review publisher info; Judicial findings on specific individuals are reported to the Branch (and WT HQ in USA?)
What if the individual demand the "Right to be Forgotten" and all written evidence of them ever being a member wiped from congregation and WT files?
-
48
2018 Convention videos leaked by brave insiders
by Room 215 inanopther coup for cedars: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/leaked-2018-convention-videos-celebrate-anti-lgbtq-bigotry-unquestioning-obedience-doomsday-fear-mongering
-
-
respectful_observer
Clip #1:
A retail clerk doesn’t give two hoots whether you buy a charity item or not on top of your store purchase; they’re worried when their next coffee/smoke break is, or whether they can find someone to cover their shift next Saturday night.
Btw, why are there almost only women shopping in that store?
Clip #2:
I’ve had elders and COs tell me specifically that it’s more important to attend the congregation that’s best for YOUR circumstances (and spirituality)
Also: “Does it make more sense?” Who cares!!!
Clip #3:
Kid: (Hmmm...Armageddon will be terrifying with people dying everywhere.)
Elder: "Don't worry about it! God has lots of experience killing everyone in sight! Assyria soldiers, babies in the Great Flood, whenever and wherever!"
I’ve had elders and COs tell me specifically that it’s more important to attend the congregation that’s best for YOUR circumstances (and spirituality)
-
13
Watch Tower Farms
by Lost in the fog ini know that the farms have been around for decades but i was wondering if the watch tower farms ever abbreviate their name simply to wtf?
.
-
-
respectful_observer
Give the “WTF” stenciled all over Wallkill, I suspect one of the motivations to official change the name of the property to “Wallkill Bethel” was the emergence of “WTF” in the last decade or so into common slang
-
74
The book burning has started
by pale.emperor indon't know if this is a global thing but i've just been told by a pimo member of my old congregation that a min servant has been given the task of destroying all old books/literature in the kh library prior to 1992.. could be the elders (or even one of them) on a mission to stamp out dissent as my ex-wife used the same reasoning to her elder dad that i used in my jc: rutherfords books containing failed predictions.. anyone else heared anything?.
the ms who's been given the task is a company man.
no hope of him keeping them or selling them on ebay.. they have some russell books in that library too.
-
-
respectful_observer
The concept of the "Overlapping Generation" is quite simple really. I find this graphic to be helpful:
-
23
Has the Great Tribulation Already started?
by The Fall Guy inw55 10/15 p. 623 par.
w56 12/15 p. 755 par.
w56 2/15 p. 119 par.
-
-
respectful_observer
I'm of the mind that eventually the GB will claim NuLite that the GT has already started-- albeit "invisibly" (or only with those (read: JWs only) with the spiritual awareness to recognize the signs. They'll draw a parallel to "only God's Organization" recognized that Jesus began to reign in 1914, and that no one in Christendom or earthly governments did. It's a win-win for them to do so because it will drive the Kool-aid J-dubs wild, scare quite a few PIMOs to return-- and because the GT has no set time limit, they can milk it for 2 or 3 decades at least. Suddenly tragic world events and criticism of the WT aren't "signs of the last days", they are secret signals to JWs reinforcing the teaching that the GT is really underway.