respectful_observer

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Posts by respectful_observer

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  34

  Is My Wife Awakening?

  by My Name is of No Consequence in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  every now and then, my wife will talk about how things are not making sense within the org.

  i usually just dismiss it as her playing mind games with me.

  for example, she would ask why there are so many branches being closed or why so many congregations are being merged.

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  respectful_observer

  • Those are pretty good points. I wonder if I can find where she is getting her info from without setting off alarm bells. Maybe I will just let it play out.

    @MNIONC: Perhaps an alternative is to include something very specific in a post here or on Reddit that only she would recognize as coming from you. It could be something as innocuous as something she was wearing when she said something to you. For all you know she could be dropping all this topics in the hope you "out" yourself to her which will then give her the safe zone to open up more.

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  34

  Is My Wife Awakening?

  by My Name is of No Consequence in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  every now and then, my wife will talk about how things are not making sense within the org.

  i usually just dismiss it as her playing mind games with me.

  for example, she would ask why there are so many branches being closed or why so many congregations are being merged.

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  respectful_observer

  I dunno...I think AudeSapere might be on to something.

  She seems to be ticking off all the PIMO/POMO "greatest hits" issues way too easily. The only way I'd imagine a JW would be able to notice ALL those topics is to be plugged in here, Reddit, or some other similar forum.
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  32

  How many are PIMO ??

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know we cannot answer this, how many are physically in, mentally out (pimo), but i heard an amazing piece of news the other day.. an ex-p.o and ex-elder, a long time regular pioneer, and when i knew him a stalwart believer, went for a drink with another jw who has actually left, but is not df or anything.. in the course of conversation he came out with this bombshell "well, i am actually an atheist now, i just go along to keep my wife happy".. i also heard of a number of youngsters that i know personally who are simply living their life as they want, whilst making sure they don't get df'd for family and social reasons.. if as it seems the pimo's are a huge number, could there be a huge " awakening" where they all realize they are in a huge group, and they all say " eff it, lets call it a day on all the jw s**t ".

  ?.

  wishful thinking, but.....just possible ?.

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  respectful_observer

  I think the percentage will vary depending on the region/country. I suspect the PIMO % is significantly higher in areas where levels of income and education are higher. In those areas, I wouldn't be surprised if the self-acknowledged PIMOs are 10-15%, followed by another 5-10% who would be PIMO, except they check their brains at the door or knowingly or unknowingly don't test their beliefs to simply avoid complicating their thoughts or lives.
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  36

  2018 Regional Convention program available on JW.borg

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/convention-program-2018/.

  friday.

  be courageous and very strong”​—joshua 1:7

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  respectful_observer

  I can't wait for Saturday afternoon's symposium on how animals show courage, especially the Mongoose Honey Badger:

  1:50 SYMPOSIUM: Learn Courage From Creation

  • Mongooses Honey Badger (Psalm 91:3, 13-15)

    Leaked 3 minute video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg
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  34

  Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  curious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?

  it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.

  you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).

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  respectful_observer

  The first two points under article 17 says that the data should be erased unless,
  1. the personal data are no longer necessary in relation to the purposes for which they were collected or otherwise processed;

  That casts a pretty wide net for the WT to use. I agree with other posters that this is what the WT will likely use to justify maintaining historical data on current and former members forever and I suspect the courts will be hesitant to challenge them on that.

  To me, the most impactful element of GDPR will be the obligation to disclose, and obtain written consent initially and then periodically thereafter.
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  34

  Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  curious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?

  it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.

  you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).

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  respectful_observer

  GDPR definition of consent:
  (11) 'consent' of the data subject means any freely given, specific, informed and unambiguous indication of the data subject's wishes by which he or she, by a statement or by a clear affirmative action, signifies agreement to the processing of personal data relating to him or her;
  => Article: 6, 7, 8
  => Recital: 32, 33, 38, 42, 43
  => Dossier: Consent

  In a recent GDPR session I attended (having nothing to do with impact to religious institutions) one of the facilitators made the comment that when it came to "special" or "sensitive categories" of data, GDPR's bar for what qualified as "consent" was much higher. She said (paraphrasing) that when it came to religion, race, etc. data, "consent" would require more than simply implied consent. Even a "check the box"/"I agree" would not be sufficient to serve as "consent". Additionally, it was mentioned that the consent given had a shelf life-- that GDPR would expect the controller of the data to seek renewal of that consent at least every 5 years.

  If what I heard was correct, the WT's current privacy policy's definition of consent comes nowhere near meeting the bar set by GDPR.
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  34

  Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  curious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?

  it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.

  you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).

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  respectful_observer

  It would be interesting if some EU-based journalist who's had some experience with J-dub policies and records in the past (most likely child abuse) decided to do a story on this and make official press inquiries of the WT.

  I doubt most PIMI JWs ever think about how much more personal data the Org really keeps and circulates on members than the average religion.

  I'm assuming most faiths might track name of members, what parish/congregation they attend, maybe baptism/wedding dates if the church is involved. Probably not much more than that, unless there are tax issues related to contributions.

  Compare that with the JWs: DOB, baptism dates, letters of introduction if moving between congregations, JC notes, notification of judicial action to the Branch, monthly service report data, applications for and letters of recommendation for LDC, Bethel, etc., letters of appointment, emergency contacts, copies of Blood Cards, records/notes on elders who are convention/assembly speakers, etc., etc....

  If the WT does have to disclose in writing to each publisher what records they actually keep, why they keep them, and who sees them, that might be rather eye opening to many.
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  34

  Impact of GDPR on WT HQ and EU branches?

  by respectful_observer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  curious if any of our eu-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official wt channels on how the organisation plans to be in compliance with gdpr ("general data protection regulations") by may 2018?

  it's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.. specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:.

  you must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it).

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  respectful_observer

  Hi all,

  Curious if any of our EU-based members (especially those still in) have heard anything from official WT channels on how the Organisation plans to be in compliance with GDPR ("General Data Protection Regulations") by May 2018?

  It's my understanding that religious organisations must comply, and that religious data is treated a "protected" and therefore subject to some enhance requirements.

  Specifically, how will they comply with the following requirements:

  1. You must disclose to the individual: what data you collect on them, why, and what you do with the data (including what other parties receive the data and what they do with it)
  2. The individual must provide their written explicit consent that they agree to have the entity retain their data in the manner disclosed. Any changes to the terms require new consent from the individual
  3. Data collection must be proportional (i.e., only necessary data may be collected and can only be used for what you've previously disclosed to the individual)
  4. You can only keep the data as long as absolutely necessary, and must delete afterward. (e.g., even if a person demands deletion of their data, the organisation may be required to retain certain data points such as financial/tax data attached to a contribution)
  5. The individual must have: rights of access to all their data, the ability to correct it, and object to it
  6. The individual must have the "Right to be Forgotten" (i.e., they must be able to dictate that all their data be permanently erased

  Congregations keep Publisher Cards and Judicial files forever; COs review publisher info; Judicial findings on specific individuals are reported to the Branch (and WT HQ in USA?)

  What if the individual demand the "Right to be Forgotten" and all written evidence of them ever being a member wiped from congregation and WT files?
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  48

  2018 Convention videos leaked by brave insiders

  by Room 215 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anopther coup for cedars: http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/leaked-2018-convention-videos-celebrate-anti-lgbtq-bigotry-unquestioning-obedience-doomsday-fear-mongering

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  respectful_observer

  Clip #1:

  A retail clerk doesn’t give two hoots whether you buy a charity item or not on top of your store purchase; they’re worried when their next coffee/smoke break is, or whether they can find someone to cover their shift next Saturday night.

  Btw, why are there almost only women shopping in that store?

  Clip #2:

  I’ve had elders and COs tell me specifically that it’s more important to attend the congregation that’s best for YOUR circumstances (and spirituality)

  Also: “Does it make more sense?” Who cares!!!

  Clip #3:

  Kid: (Hmmm...Armageddon will be terrifying with people dying everywhere.)

  Elder: "Don't worry about it! God has lots of experience killing everyone in sight! Assyria soldiers, babies in the Great Flood, whenever and wherever!"

  I’ve had elders and COs tell me specifically that it’s more important to attend the congregation that’s best for YOUR circumstances (and spirituality)
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  13

  Watch Tower Farms

  by Lost in the fog in

  1. social
  2. humour

  i know that the farms have been around for decades but i was wondering if the watch tower farms ever abbreviate their name simply to wtf?

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  respectful_observer

  Give the “WTF” stenciled all over Wallkill, I suspect one of the motivations to official change the name of the property to “Wallkill Bethel” was the emergence of “WTF” in the last decade or so into common slang