Posts by Julie

25

I Look Death in the Eye

by COMF in

jw
friends

i have always had trouble breathing.

in track i was great for a quick burst of speed in the 50 yard dash, but couldn't move enough air in and out to keep myself going for the longer runs like the 330. i had sleep apnea really bad, with the classic symptoms where i stopped breathing for a while and then suddenly snorted myself awake gasping for breath.

for most of my life, surgery wasn't an option due to my jw lifestyle and employment choices (cleaning business = no insurance).

Julie

Hi Comf,

Disturbing tale. Are not hospitals the most dehumanizing places on earth? Horrifying isn't it?

I want to mention two things to you Cap'n. One, been there on the I-think-I-am-bleeding-to-death business. I nearly did and boy I had a few revelations of my own. I can fully understand yours.

Another item worthy of mention, but on a bit of a lighter note, when I went to have my 2nd child it was a planned c-section, unlike the first which was an emergency situation I wanted to avoid the second time through. Since it was all planned one would expect a smooth situation. As I was in my room being prepped for surgery the nurse seemed a bit unsure as to the order of which she should do things. I didn't like that but tried to keep a good humour. Though I was a bit alarmed when she asked "do you want me to shave you first or put your catheter in first?" I paused a moment and answered, "surprise me".

Fortunately someone who knew what they were doing came along but still, my confidence had been shaken.

Glad you made it--
Julie

8

God's Hero

by Norm in

jw
friends

those who are believers and worry about meeting gods standard for moral, ethics and general behavior seem to have very little to worry about.

at least if we are to take the bible serious.

take the example of the well know hero and judge, samson.

Julie

Hi Norm,

Good post, as always. I can't help but wonder; where are all those people who claim they can thoroughly explain all the seemingly barbaric violence and absurd contradictions in the bible? I have seen this claim more times than I can remember and yet I cannot recall ever seeing one example of this sort of clarification.

This would be fine opportunity for some faithful follower of bible-God to stand up and maek all things clear for us. Thanks for presenting them with yet another opportunity Norm. A shame no one is likely to make use of it.

Regards,
Julie

62

The Natural Law fallacy and Homosexuality

by JanH in

jw
friends

there is a fallacy of logic that is so common that few people realize that it is, indeed, a fallacy of logic: the fallacy by appeal to nature.. one argument against homosexuality goes something like this:.

the natural use of the reproductive organs is obviously to make children.

using these organs in a way that cannot produce children is unnatural and thus ethically wrong.. .

Julie

Waiting,

:Logical was put down for being homophobic the other day -

I don't know anything about that

:now JanH is teased because he's addressing the situation in a calm, positive way.

Actually Jan is a friend of mine and I would bet the house he takes no offense and is secure enough to recognize it for the joke that it was. You need to relax.

:Curiously, I've found that people who are uncomfortable with the idea of homosexuality make many jokes about it - usually at another person's expense.

I agree and I wouldn't make a joke about/to anyone who I didn't know well enough to be confident no harm would be done. I personally have no problems with whatever people want to do, as long as no one tries to force their preferences on me, I am more than content to live and let live.

Julie, who has been tragically misjudged

62

The Natural Law fallacy and Homosexuality

by JanH in

jw
friends

there is a fallacy of logic that is so common that few people realize that it is, indeed, a fallacy of logic: the fallacy by appeal to nature.. one argument against homosexuality goes something like this:.

the natural use of the reproductive organs is obviously to make children.

using these organs in a way that cannot produce children is unnatural and thus ethically wrong.. .

Julie

Hmmm, nice presentation of arguments Jan. So what is it exactly you are telling us? Is this some sort of coming-out-of-the-closet thing for you? ;-)

Julie, who wishes everyone could just accept other's sexuality and get on with the business of enjoying life--and sex for that matter

82

Where do you go to die?

by wasasister in

jw
friends

for the majority of humans, certain events are surrounded by tradition and ritual.

marriage, the birth of children, entrance into adulthood, and death are all life-events which will be marked by most with a form of religious ceremony.

for the few who have left off affiliation with a religious organization, these events are marked differently - more by tradition than by mystic ritual.

Julie

Interesting topic and of course You Know has a predictable answer. In reality I agree with him on the issue that it does not really matter how our bodies are "disposed of" after death, but of course we reach this conclusion by completely different paths (Robert, you and I never seem to be on the same path).

I have no religious beliefs but my death won't be difficult for me, it will be hard for those who love me. I will let them decide how best to arrange things when my time comes because I want them to have whatever would comfort them. If they wanted high mass sung over my body three days straight what would it matter to me? (this wouldn't happen, just an example) Nor would I be aware if they dug a hole in the backyard and put me in it though I can't see this happening either.

My only request is that no one is foolish enough to squander a lot of resources on the matter. I'd rather some living person in need benefit on that count.

Julie

9

If I'd Known Then What I Know Now.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

if i'd known then what i know now, i would have realised that the vague prospect of everlasting life in the company of other witnesses, was not enough reason to give up all the pleasurable things in this life.. if i'd known then what i know now, i would not have spent many years appeasing my jw parents.

i would not have waited 12 years before saying that df'ing was their problem, not mine, and how dare they question how i live my life and bring up my children?

i'm the one setting the right example by loving them without any conditions being attached.. if i'd known then what i know now, i would have accepted that most people are kind and helpful whenever possible.

Julie

:If I'd known then what I know now

Oh, don't even get me started....

Julie

5

What makes us so Compliant.

by Jang in

jw
friends

there is not only a personal need to agree with others but strong pressure exerted by the group on any person with different opinions to comply with the majority.

promises, arguments, and threats are used to get agreement.

"to have friends, you have to get along.

Julie

Good post! I have often wondered about compliance even though I fully understand the need people have to "fit in".

Personally I have long been a non-compliant sort of girl and though it wins me no friends in some quarters it has saved me from many a mistake, including joining the oh-so-controlling cult a.k.a. The Watchtower. I knew I could never join such an organization. I always thoroughly assess a rule before I decide whether or not I will adhere to it. I saw their rules as bullshit from a mile away, all thanks to my I'll-be-the-judge-of-whether-that-should-be-a-rule-for-me attitude.

Remember, the favorite word of the non-conformist is "why". Use it freely.

Julie

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

Julie

Good point that many think that the Borg=Jehovah. Another point I find extremely interesting is that people also think the bible=God. If someone does not think the bible is God's word that does not necessarily mean that the person dismisses all possibility of God existing, just the bible as being representative of God.

Just a thought--
Julie

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

Julie

:So, while I don`t question the previous posts evaluation of modern Catholicism in the west, I would
suggest that the actual state of affairs varies greatly from country
to country.

I will concede this point. So much for global unity.

Julie, who is always willing to concede a good point

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

Julie

Greetings to all:

I just read Heff's "Hi" thread and thought "thank god I was raised Catholic" and then I found this. Needless to say I cannot resist correcting a few things. Keep in mind I am not Catholic or Christian now and consider the bible to be very un-god-like so I am not rushing to the defense of the RCC, just adding my two cents.

Here we go:

:Then
one day I began to put some ideas together and came up with a number
of parallels between the Roman Catholic Chruch and the WTBTS. Here
they are, let me know what you think.

I think you are right but a little mis-informed, but considering you were a JW, this is understandable. There are many parallels but you missed the mark a bit.

:The Catholic Church claims to be the only true church. They use the
term `the Mother Church` .

This claim has faded over the past few decades, they are going with more of a We-were-the-first spin these days (quick to cite the "Upon this rock..." nonsense).

:The RCC has a hierarchal arrangement with priests being the local conduit of TRUTH from on
high.Much like the elder arrangement.

Except priests tend to be educated.

:The RCC uses fear tactics to
encourage people to stay in the org. In both religions non-believers
get a second chance in the after-life, while apostates are damned.

The RCC uses the fear that the bible does to keep people believing. All bible based religions use fear. I will say this though, in my 30 some years of being Catholic, I never heard a word against other religions or anyone who had once been Catholic. Ever. And I went to Catholic school even. I never feared being excommunicated or shunned and never heard of any such thing happening for centuries. The seemingly kinder, gentler RCC is even saying outrageous things like "you can be saved and not be Catholic".

:Both religions have an additional avenue for truth other than the
Bible alone.And both discourage (if not forbid) learning the Bible
on your own,lest you come to a different conclusion than `Mother`.

In Catholicism the "additional avenue for truth" is called "tradition" and most of them are based on writings that are considered to have some merit but didn't make the cut in the final draft of the bible. As to reading the bible, two views. For centuries the RCC wasn't too hot for the "unwashed" to get their hands on the bible, true. Now that I know what's in it I think it was very wise of them to try to prevent that. Now however the RCC strongly encourages its members to read and learn the bible. Unlike in the KH the words, "read your bible" aren't followed up with additional instruction like "along with your WT".

:Both religions rely heavily on visual aids. With the RCC it`s statuary
in the church and robes whereas with the WTS it`s drawings and pictures in their publications. Both include visual representations
of God (Jehovah).Check out the Revelation book and see how many drawings there are of Jehovah all gold and sitting on a throne.I
thought the 10 commandments forbade ANY image of God...!

One thing to keep in mind is the age of the RCC. While even the newer churches include statues and various artwork this sort of thing began when the faithful were generally illiterate. This fabulous artwork served a two-fold purpose. One was to attest to the piety of the sponsor/builder of a magnificent house of god (and hopefully help god to overlook a few of their imperfections/transgressions). The other was to provide bible stories to the illiterate.

The pictures in the WT's Revelation book are meant to scare the hell out of you so you will schlepp their wretched mags from door to door the rest of your days. Period.

:Both religions boast of a unified world-wide organization. Both feature
several extra-biblical prohibitions based on the orgs. interpretation.
With the RCC it includes contraception and marriage of priests as well
as some dietary restrictions.

See what I don't understand is how come people can read Paul's rantings about abstinence and not comprehend the RCC's spin on celebacy for the priests. Go forth and multiply sounds like an order to reproduce to me so there's the birth control issue and the only dietary restrictions I know of is the no-meat on fridays during lent rule, but that's voluntary and has been considered such for ages.

The funny thing here is that I actually agree with you that there are some nasty similarities between the WT and the RCC. I am of the view however that the WT more closely resembles the RCC of centuries ago than the one of today.

One more point I would very much like to make is that most here have been JWs therefore many of you know what you do of the RCC from the WT. Sure there is plenty of info out there on the RCC and much of it's activities are in the news and common knowledge. But one must put aside learned prejudices in order to make objective evaluations.

Julie, who has made the objective evaluation that it is all superstitious nonsense