Justin

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Posts by Justin

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  7

  Do you know the passage?

  by FieryIce in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  an interesting question, the saints, the holy ones, if they are aware of their calling and choose to not follow for what ever reason, life or family pressures, what are the reprecussion for that called one?.

  i was sure i had read a passage that stated the called one that turned away would loose the gifts yet still have their name remain in the book and i thought i read another passage stating the called one that turned away, then turned back again was not allowed and would have their name removed from the book.. the closest i have come to finding these passages is heb.

  6:6 and there is john 15:6 but both passages are not quite what i was looking for.

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  Justin

  As others have commented, this is a problem created by the WT by having two classes to begin with - especially having the two classes existing side by side at the same time in history. So we can't really refer to scripture texts to solve problems which are derived from this misunderstanding.

  If you think you are one of the "holy ones," and you fulfill the normal requirements for a JW, the only thing lacking would be your possibly not wanting to declare yourself (by partaking at the Memorial), as you realize that, in one way or another, you might be forced out of the organization. Are those consequences acceptable to you? If not, you might be better off just keeping your hope to yourself. It is true, according the WT's own teachings, someone with this hope should partake - but then they turn right around and make it tough for people who they are suspicious of. They have created the imperfect situation in which you may find yourself.

  If the things you read in these posts do not convince you to leave the organization for other reasons, then you should take care of yourself and let Jehovah straighten matters out in the end. God knows those who belong to him.

  Justin
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  7

  C. T. R.'s grave

  by seedy3 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey folks,.

  i was sjust chatting with a current member fo the borg, and the subject turned to c. t. russell and where he is buried.. she said that the pastor is not buried in allegeny pa. and is not buried at the triangular representation of an acient building (he he fancy way of saying pyrimid), anyway he said his grave is in albany ny in a cematary for the wts bethelites.

  is this another scam the wts is running, i have seen his gravestone and such in pics, and it is in pa not ny.

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  Justin

  The entire issue of Zion's Watch Tower for December 1916 was devoted to Russell's funeral services. (See Harvest Truth Database V5.0) A service was held in New York, then Russell's body was taken to Pittsburg, Pennsylvania for another service. Then his remains were buried out of Pittsburg at the Rosement Cemetery. Whether the cemetery was actually in Allegheny the article does not state.

  Justin
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  6

  The Dublin/Ireland Apostasy of the 1970's

  by Jim Dee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in jw land there is an account/gossip/talk of a great apostasy event in dublin in the late 1970s.

  the society apparently had to send in an enforcer and the "dubs" were dealt with very harshly.. anybody any account/details of it?.

  jim

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  Justin

  This sounds like it may have something to do with the case of two Irishmen, John May and Martin Merriman, as reported by Ray Franz in Crisis of Conscience, pages 328-35. In the early 80's they were concerned with the way Ray had been treated (disfellowshipped for eating a meal with Peter Gregerson), tried to investigate, and ended up on the outside looking in.

  Justin
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  169

  how old are you? the avg. age here?

  by rekless in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm 56

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  Justin

  55
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  2

  Zerah the Cushite

  by badboy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in a recent wt magazine(me think!

  )its says that zerah the cushite had a million men when he fought king asa(?).

  is this so?

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  Justin

  At 2 Chronicles 14:8-10 we read that Zerah the Ethiopian came out against King Asa with a million men. "Ethiopian" is the Greek name for "Cushite."
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  2

  What were the the source(s) for the NWT ?

  by badboy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was reading my niv study bible when it said that some of the septuagint texts are more reliable than the masoretic because the chronicler in chron 1& 2 mentions that david burned the idols when he took baal perazim(sic)(the chronicler is obviously taking a lot of material from the books of samuel) in some septuagint texts the above is mentioned in one of the books of samuel!.

  is the nwt translation taken from the septuagint or the masoretic texts?.

  if later, they are translating from a unreliable source

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  Justin

  The NWT "Hebrew Scriptures" is based on the Masoretic text.
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  20

  TO ANSWER WHY WE WENT TO KINGDOM HALL TO EAT!

  by JUSTAMOM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello to everyone today.

  some of you asked why in the world we go to the kingdom hall to partake of the emblems at memorial when we don't believe in them anymore?

  was it just to cause an irritation?

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  Justin

  plmkrzy,

  This is in answer to your question about whether the WT ever published its view that disfellowshipped anointed ones should not attend the Memorial.

  This is what I remember reading in a Questions from Readers in the Watchtower. I have not been a JW for over 20 years and cannot do the research to find the exact quote. I understand there is now a CD which people can use to research previous publications.

  I believe I remember the Question from Readers actually pertained to whether or not disfellowshipped people could attend, and the answer was Yes. But then, sort of as an afterthought, they said that someone who was anointed and disfellowshipped should not attend. I do not believe that this was in any way intended to increase someone's suffering - it was to avoid an awkward situation of having someone who was used to partaking from being in a position of either having to partake in a disfellowshipped state or else having to pass the emblems along as if they were of the "other sheep" class.

  This was published before the WT had to worry about many new ones starting to partake - it was written when a partaker was usually one of the "old-timers." It was also written before some people started to partake as a last protest before leaving the WT. So there are problems the WT faces now that it did not at the time the article was written.

  In my opinion, for someone who sincerely believes they have the heavenly calling, it is only proper for them to partake of the emblems regardless of what criticism they may receive from the elders. But once someone has been put out of the congregation, they should not come back just to partake and make a point. With all the anxiety that has been created over the "two classes" doctrine, people forget that the Memorial is a symbol of unity (not uniformity as the WT would have it) and that it cannot be used like a weapon in the current "spiritual war" between the WT and its "apostates." If someone leaves the WT or is put out, they can still partake at the table of the Lord with others of like precious faith and at least be united in love and faith with those people.

  The old communion hymn, which refers to the Lord's Evening Meal as the "Eucharist," had it right:

  "O Thou, who at thy Eucharist didst pray
  That all thy Church might be for ever one,
  Grant us at every Eucharist to say
  With longing heart and soul, 'Thy will be done.'
  O may we all one Bread, one Body be,
  Through this blest Sacrament of unity.'

  Justin
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  20

  TO ANSWER WHY WE WENT TO KINGDOM HALL TO EAT!

  by JUSTAMOM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello to everyone today.

  some of you asked why in the world we go to the kingdom hall to partake of the emblems at memorial when we don't believe in them anymore?

  was it just to cause an irritation?

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  Justin

  I hesitated to reply to your previous thread, as I do not want to appear to be defending the WT and I know you have your point to make.

  As far as anyone being welcome at the Memorial, I do remember reading at one time that someone who used to partake of the emblems but is now disfellowshipped (as is the case with your husband) is not welcome at the Memorial. It was also stated that if such a person is ever reinstated, they will be received back as one of the anointed and can once again partake.

  Churches that place a great deal of emphasis on partaking of the bread and wine also emphasize that to do so, one must be "in communion" with those who share these emblems. If you are disfellowshipped, you are not in communion with JWs. If you want to partake with others besides your family members, then find a church into which you may be received into communion.

  What is the point of going to the Kingdom Hall as a disfellowshipped person and partaking of the emblems? To prove to them that everyone is entitled to partake? Such an act of defiance is not going to convince them of anything, and there is more involved than merely the doctrinal issue of the two classes - because you are in fact partaking as a disfellowshipped person. If you had been excommunicated from a church (which does not necessarily involve shunning but simply means being barred from communion), do you think they would let you return and receive communion anyway?

  Justin
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  39

  UN vs Watchtower Society

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower has pronounced the un as being the disgusting thing because it is trying to bring about world peace instead of putting its faith in jehovah to do that.. the watchtower claims to be jehovah's tool and itself attempts to unite the peoples of the world into a united organization going so far as to monitor and punish the behavior of individuals around the world.. how are the watchtower's actions different from the united nations actions?.

  joel

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  Justin

  I've been reading Russell's original works - the Studies in the Scriptures. It's interesting that Russell thought the "disgusting thing" (or "abomination of desolation" - KJV) was the Papacy, an old Protestant interpretation. Also, Russell thought that the image of the beast was the Evangelical Alliance of Protestant demominations formed in 1846. Of course, Russell's "time of the end" was from 1799 to 1914.

  It seems that once a religious group accepts the idea that the "end" is imminent, all the prophetic symbols have to be given meanings which correspond to present realities. So the "disgusting thing" or the "image" could be anything, as long as Armageddon is just around the corner!

  Justin
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  43

  The 144,000 chosen ones...I'm so confused

  by SoManyQuestions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my biggest question about jw is regarding the 144,000 from revelations.

  how could john know exactly how many people were there?

  how did he know that they were representing the 12 tribes of israel?

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  Justin

  You're asking too many questions to be answered here (though perhaps someone might attempt to answer them).

  Just remember that the 144,000 are a Biblical subject. They appear in the book of Revelation - in Greek, the Apocalypse. This book has leant its name to a whole literary genre of ancient writings known as "apocalyptic." So do some research regarding what this type of literature conveyed and find out what scholars think the 144,000 originally meant.

  Then there is a whole history of interpretation - what theologians thought about this number throughout the ages.

  And finally, there is the JW view. For this, it is best to read articles about JWs written by others.

  If you become too fascinated by these things, you're setting yourself up to becoming indoctrinated by the JWs themselves. You don't want to end up getting burned like we did, do you? If all this research is being done to enter a close relationship with a JW, as others have told you, it's not worth it.

  Justin