Posts by Cicatrix

34

King Solomon

by Cicatrix in

okay, maybe i'm ignorant, but i can't stop thinking about this.. it's recorded in the bible that jehovah gave solomon great wisdom.

so why did he eventually turn away from jehovah and start serving the gods of his foreign born wives?it would seem to me that that increased wisdom from jehovah would make him more likely to continue to serve jehovah faithfully.. this also brings to mind the account of adam and eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. i considered this from the angle that solomon used his free will and chose to oppose jehovah.

but is free will really "free" if you are punished with death for disobeying the creator???.

Cicatrix

???I'm sorry, Paduan, I don't understand. Can you explain more simply for me?

Thanks

Cicatrix

34

King Solomon

by Cicatrix in

okay, maybe i'm ignorant, but i can't stop thinking about this.. it's recorded in the bible that jehovah gave solomon great wisdom.

so why did he eventually turn away from jehovah and start serving the gods of his foreign born wives?it would seem to me that that increased wisdom from jehovah would make him more likely to continue to serve jehovah faithfully.. this also brings to mind the account of adam and eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. i considered this from the angle that solomon used his free will and chose to oppose jehovah.

but is free will really "free" if you are punished with death for disobeying the creator???.

Cicatrix

Thanks for clarifying, Lulu.Your comment triggered a knee-jerk reaction because it sounded to me like comments I'd heard before that were prefaced with "maybe you need to be a more submissive wife, pray harder, go out in service more..." you know the drill.Well, the problem was, I let everyone else do my thinking for me for way too long, and now I'm trying to learn to question things from my own perspective.Not easy when you've spent 20 years as a true believer.

37

What are your thoughts on writing DA letters?

by mamashel in

as most of you know, i have been inactive for about 2 1/2 yrs and completely out for about 7 months.

i am debating on wether or not to write a letter of da to the org or not.

in some ways i just want closure, and on the other hand i dont want to play by their rules.

Cicatrix

I wrote a DA letter because I was already being investigated for possible DFing offenses. I have no family in the Borg, though, or I probably would have just hung in there for their sake if I didn't.I had few friends left, due to concerned "warnings" by conscientious Christians who were in fact spreading slanderous lies, little beknownst to them.I knew I was done with it all, and I planned to celebrate holidays. A quick peek at the Elder's Manual online informed me that yes, indeedy, I could be disfellowshipped for putting decorations up.I was also tired of hearing "we miss you so much at meetings" at every public place I encountered congregation members(funny, some of them lived right down the road and never came over to visit).I wouldn't give them that kind of power over me anymore.I was going out on my own terms.

My "meeting" with the elders was held on my porch with no prior warning that they were even coming. I refused to discuss why I was leaving with them.They wanted to know if I was attending another church(I am not).They asked me if I understood what this meant. I said that I did.They asked if they could study with my children (I thought this kind of odd, since they wouldn't give me any help at all with them when I was a pub). I told them no. That was the end of it. They announced it the next week.

The impact on the congregation was exactly as I expected it would be. They were shocked, to say the least.I've seen several of them in public, and they find it very hard not to come and talk to me.Some disregard the WT dictates and say hello when they see me.I hear comments through the grapevine from others(amazing how even though they can't talk to you, they manage to get messages to you through mutual aquaintances that they can talk to. These aqaintances tend to filter out the bad stuff for me).

I no longer care what kind of crap the "loving" friends want to spread about me now (they will have to stand in line behind my in-laws, who have been blasting me ever since I married into their family). Certain prominent congregation members were doing it long before I left. It hurt much more coming from supposed friends than it does from new enemies(in their view, not mine), especially since I was trying so hard then to meet up with the impossible standards that kept changing.

Now I'm free to think and act however I want to. I'm looking at things from lots of different angles and forming my own perception of things.I'm meeting interesting people, and I don't have to constantly look over my shoulder for a Witness who will tsk tsk me for "bad associations".I've shared with my family and a few others what it is like to leave a high control group, and they have been very supportive.As has everyone on this board(which I can surf without fear of reprisal).

I joined the Jehovah's Witnesses at my own free will. I left of my own free will. As far as I'm concerned, the DA letter was nothing but the dissolution contract of a deal gone sour.And now I can invoke it selectively against those who attempt to hurt me, or ignore it if I so choose if some choose to break the rules that They still follow.So who's in control now?:)

34

King Solomon

by Cicatrix in

okay, maybe i'm ignorant, but i can't stop thinking about this.. it's recorded in the bible that jehovah gave solomon great wisdom.

so why did he eventually turn away from jehovah and start serving the gods of his foreign born wives?it would seem to me that that increased wisdom from jehovah would make him more likely to continue to serve jehovah faithfully.. this also brings to mind the account of adam and eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. i considered this from the angle that solomon used his free will and chose to oppose jehovah.

but is free will really "free" if you are punished with death for disobeying the creator???.

Cicatrix

Lol Farkel- Great thread.You took the thoughts on Adam and Eve right out of my head (maybe that explains my recurrent migraines), with some more points to add. The Bible says that Eve was deceived.She was fooled man, utterly stumped. So why did she die forever and ever (she grieved the holy spirit?) for something she didn't even entirely understand she did? Also, Adam was the head, so why did he take the fruit from Eve on her prompting? He was the boss, he could have said no. Instead he ate, then blamed her when God came calling.But like you said, why did they even have to be tested in the first place if God trusted that he made a perfect human race that would serve him without fail.And why even offer them free will if it wasn't okay to have a difference of opinion?

I love your point on the disappearance of the garden of Eden. I'm with you-if I saw an angel with a flaming sword, you bet your boots I'd be compelled to believe and obey. Why are we supposed to go on blind faith and a vague threat that if we don't comply, we will be roasted at armageddon? Especially when there are numerous versions of what is the "true" way to serve God properly(I've been figuratively killed by people of a number of religions for not believing as they do).It's kind of a paradox-we're supposed want to serve a God that we can't see, while rejecting "abnormal" fleshly erotic feelings that we poor imperfect schmucks end up having occasionally from the things we DO see.And meanwhile try to cultivate a relationship with a God who likes to play hide and seek.

It all gives me a headache. But I still wonder why the concept of God is out there, and if one or more exsist.Did God invent humans, or did humans invent God? It's the chicken and egg thing.

Right now, I'm enjoying an audio version of one of Stephen Hawking's works.Thanks for the recommendation-it makes my drive to school insightful.

34

After-meeting conversations

by Gopher in

to be able to properly "encourage one another, more so as you behold the end drawing near", we as jw's were instructed to do the following: .

(1) stay after the meeting for "upbuilding association", and .

(2) rather than talk about mundane things of life, discuss the finer points of the meeting just held.

Cicatrix

The guys at my former hall talked about what a shame it was that all of the sisters wore skirts that went down to their ankles after they got married:)

34

King Solomon

by Cicatrix in

okay, maybe i'm ignorant, but i can't stop thinking about this.. it's recorded in the bible that jehovah gave solomon great wisdom.

so why did he eventually turn away from jehovah and start serving the gods of his foreign born wives?it would seem to me that that increased wisdom from jehovah would make him more likely to continue to serve jehovah faithfully.. this also brings to mind the account of adam and eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. i considered this from the angle that solomon used his free will and chose to oppose jehovah.

but is free will really "free" if you are punished with death for disobeying the creator???.

Cicatrix

Thanks St Satan,

I've never heard that angle before. I'm going to write down the title of the book you mentioned, and I'll look for it after I finish the title that Farkel recommended on science a few months back.

I want to approach this from every angle.This question has bugged me since childhood.

16

Be careful you don't catch it

by kenpodragon in

jw
friends

i have several little nieces and nephews in my life.

in doing so i have watched them grow from being these little babies, to these children that run all over my house when they visit.

they are a lot of fun, but some of them have the most nasty of habits.

Cicatrix

Lol, Dragon.Poor guy.There was a sixty year old sister in my former cong. that looked seven months pregnant. Skinny little arms and legs and a watermelon for a belly(but she was very sweet, mind you--I mean no offense with the description).

Good policy, Freedom. I was preggos five times, and let me tell ya, after the first, ignorance on the part of others was bliss.People who come across a pregnant woman often forget that there is a woman attached to the abdomen. I swear, they start talking to you like you are five or something, as if being gravid dissolves all of your brain cells and renders you incapable of an intelligent conversation.Sure, those hormones kick in sometimes, but for the most part,not much changes in the gray matter.Luckily, I could hide it pretty well until I was about seven months along.

I absolutely hated having my stomach touched and being asked "Oh when are you due?"My pat response was "Never. It's never coming out."

So your policy not only prevents foot-in-mouth disease, it also helps out women who are so tired of not being able to see their feet, they would rather talk about any other subject under the sun.Believe me, most women who want to discuss their impending joy will bring the subject up themselves

51

Did anyone really ever study?

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

i know we were taught to study all the wts stuff.

prepare for each meeting, prepare for service, (gotta know the articles) etc.

i mean with all the personal study to do, how could anyone have time for newspapers, novels etc.

Cicatrix

Lol KD!

I always ended up sitting in front of Brother and Sister Brightest Highlighter:) I read my mags, but with a full time job and five kids, had no time to underline and look up scriptures most of the time.

34

King Solomon

by Cicatrix in

okay, maybe i'm ignorant, but i can't stop thinking about this.. it's recorded in the bible that jehovah gave solomon great wisdom.

so why did he eventually turn away from jehovah and start serving the gods of his foreign born wives?it would seem to me that that increased wisdom from jehovah would make him more likely to continue to serve jehovah faithfully.. this also brings to mind the account of adam and eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. i considered this from the angle that solomon used his free will and chose to oppose jehovah.

but is free will really "free" if you are punished with death for disobeying the creator???.

Cicatrix

Smitty--good point.

Lol Six and Blue.

Sometimes I take my life to seriously.But this is my first rather awkward attempt to ask the questions I always had and was afraid to utter.Sometimes the only way to get past it is to wade through it, I guess.This REAL thinking stuff is harder than it looks:)

Thanks Guys,

Cicatrix

34

King Solomon

by Cicatrix in

okay, maybe i'm ignorant, but i can't stop thinking about this.. it's recorded in the bible that jehovah gave solomon great wisdom.

so why did he eventually turn away from jehovah and start serving the gods of his foreign born wives?it would seem to me that that increased wisdom from jehovah would make him more likely to continue to serve jehovah faithfully.. this also brings to mind the account of adam and eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. i considered this from the angle that solomon used his free will and chose to oppose jehovah.

but is free will really "free" if you are punished with death for disobeying the creator???.

Cicatrix

Thanks, Lulu, for your insight on Solomon. But that doesnt' really answer my question on free will by saying that Jehovah can do whatever he likes.According to the JW interpretation, all of creation is participating in a huge court case in which Jehovah is trying to make the point that there will be persons who will serve him, no matter what the consequences to themselves.How is that free will if he dictates that if we serve him, we will be rewarded with everlasting life, but if we do not, we will die a horrible death at Armageddon? What real choice does that really give? And why did Solomon choose not to serve him, if he had more insight into things--was his wisdom purely secular?That would be conjecture to state that, because it doesn't specify in the Bible.

If Jehovah is the personification of love, why would he "do whatever he likes, when he likes, and to whom?"Afterall, according to 1 Corinthians, love is kind and seeks the interest of the other.

It's not my choice to die at Armageddon. So if I go along with what I'm told by Witnesses or any other Christian group that their interpretation of the Bible is THE only one to follow, and if I push my questions out of mind so as to not challenge Jehovah (or is it an organization of imperfect human beings that I am actually questioning?), does that make me an obedient servant or a puppet who just doesn't want to die?I mean if I were to genuinely push all of my doubts out of my mind and not think about them at all?Facts like the fact that my child who was raised in the Witness religion could not get baptised by a JW simply because she only put in seven hours of field service every month instead of ten,or that my son-in-law is destined to die at Armageddon according to the Watchtower because he is not a baptised, (blood) card carrying Jehovah's Witness or a member of his parent's nonWitness religion either(even though he is the most decent, caring young man I have met in a long time.Poor guy, everyone tells him he is going to die and/or burn in hell forever)?Or the fact that I got tired of the "What did you do to deserve it?" mentality I was "comforted" with by the elders when my nonbelieving husband physically abused me a few years ago.

And I really haven't got a clue what I'm doing.Except escaping from a whole lot of pain and a rigid paradigm that told me I would never hit the mark, no matter how hard I tried.I feel no malice toward Jehovah.I just have honest questions. So Lulu, does that constitute making a choice in your opinion?