Posts by Cicatrix

51

Did anyone really ever study?

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

i know we were taught to study all the wts stuff.

prepare for each meeting, prepare for service, (gotta know the articles) etc.

i mean with all the personal study to do, how could anyone have time for newspapers, novels etc.

I always ended up sitting in front of Brother and Sister Brightest Highlighter:) I read my mags, but with a full time job and five kids, had no time to underline and look up scriptures most of the time.

34

King Solomon

by Cicatrix in

okay, maybe i'm ignorant, but i can't stop thinking about this.. it's recorded in the bible that jehovah gave solomon great wisdom.

so why did he eventually turn away from jehovah and start serving the gods of his foreign born wives?it would seem to me that that increased wisdom from jehovah would make him more likely to continue to serve jehovah faithfully.. this also brings to mind the account of adam and eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. i considered this from the angle that solomon used his free will and chose to oppose jehovah.

but is free will really "free" if you are punished with death for disobeying the creator???.

Cicatrix

Smitty--good point.

Lol Six and Blue.

Sometimes I take my life to seriously.But this is my first rather awkward attempt to ask the questions I always had and was afraid to utter.Sometimes the only way to get past it is to wade through it, I guess.This REAL thinking stuff is harder than it looks:)

Thanks Guys,

Cicatrix

34

King Solomon

by Cicatrix in

okay, maybe i'm ignorant, but i can't stop thinking about this.. it's recorded in the bible that jehovah gave solomon great wisdom.

so why did he eventually turn away from jehovah and start serving the gods of his foreign born wives?it would seem to me that that increased wisdom from jehovah would make him more likely to continue to serve jehovah faithfully.. this also brings to mind the account of adam and eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. i considered this from the angle that solomon used his free will and chose to oppose jehovah.

but is free will really "free" if you are punished with death for disobeying the creator???.

Cicatrix

Thanks, Lulu, for your insight on Solomon. But that doesnt' really answer my question on free will by saying that Jehovah can do whatever he likes.According to the JW interpretation, all of creation is participating in a huge court case in which Jehovah is trying to make the point that there will be persons who will serve him, no matter what the consequences to themselves.How is that free will if he dictates that if we serve him, we will be rewarded with everlasting life, but if we do not, we will die a horrible death at Armageddon? What real choice does that really give? And why did Solomon choose not to serve him, if he had more insight into things--was his wisdom purely secular?That would be conjecture to state that, because it doesn't specify in the Bible.

If Jehovah is the personification of love, why would he "do whatever he likes, when he likes, and to whom?"Afterall, according to 1 Corinthians, love is kind and seeks the interest of the other.

It's not my choice to die at Armageddon. So if I go along with what I'm told by Witnesses or any other Christian group that their interpretation of the Bible is THE only one to follow, and if I push my questions out of mind so as to not challenge Jehovah (or is it an organization of imperfect human beings that I am actually questioning?), does that make me an obedient servant or a puppet who just doesn't want to die?I mean if I were to genuinely push all of my doubts out of my mind and not think about them at all?Facts like the fact that my child who was raised in the Witness religion could not get baptised by a JW simply because she only put in seven hours of field service every month instead of ten,or that my son-in-law is destined to die at Armageddon according to the Watchtower because he is not a baptised, (blood) card carrying Jehovah's Witness or a member of his parent's nonWitness religion either(even though he is the most decent, caring young man I have met in a long time.Poor guy, everyone tells him he is going to die and/or burn in hell forever)?Or the fact that I got tired of the "What did you do to deserve it?" mentality I was "comforted" with by the elders when my nonbelieving husband physically abused me a few years ago.

And I really haven't got a clue what I'm doing.Except escaping from a whole lot of pain and a rigid paradigm that told me I would never hit the mark, no matter how hard I tried.I feel no malice toward Jehovah.I just have honest questions. So Lulu, does that constitute making a choice in your opinion?

34

King Solomon

by Cicatrix in

okay, maybe i'm ignorant, but i can't stop thinking about this.. it's recorded in the bible that jehovah gave solomon great wisdom.

so why did he eventually turn away from jehovah and start serving the gods of his foreign born wives?it would seem to me that that increased wisdom from jehovah would make him more likely to continue to serve jehovah faithfully.. this also brings to mind the account of adam and eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. i considered this from the angle that solomon used his free will and chose to oppose jehovah.

but is free will really "free" if you are punished with death for disobeying the creator???.

Cicatrix

Okay, maybe I'm ignorant, but I can't stop thinking about this.

It's recorded in the Bible that Jehovah gave Solomon great wisdom. So why did he eventually turn away from Jehovah and start serving the gods of his foreign born wives?It would seem to me that that increased wisdom from Jehovah would make him more likely to continue to serve Jehovah faithfully.

This also brings to mind the account of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I considered this from the angle that Solomon used his free will and chose to oppose Jehovah. But is free will really "free" if you are punished with death for disobeying the creator???

Input-I need input. This is the closest I can tiptoe to the subject of religion right now.

Thanks,

Cicatrix

15

Is all religion wrong?

by Crystal in

titus;.

[10] a man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;.

[11] knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.. subverted, subverting, subverts .

Cicatrix

"Beware of "organization". It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible will be the only rules you need. Do not seek to bind others consciences and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's Word today and so continue to grow in grace and knowledge day by day."~Watchtower 1895, page 216

"There is no organization today clothed with such divine authority to imperiously command mankind. There is no organization doing this today; though we are well aware that they ought to be permitted to do so; and many more would like to do so. This was the fatal mistake into which the church began to fall in the second century; and the effort to realize this false conception culminated in the boastful imperious counterfieting of the coming kingdom in Papcy, which for centuries sought to dominate the world by claimed "divine authority." This idea more or less pervaded and poisoned the ideas of all the protested "clergy" as well; who copying the Papacy's false ideas of the Church, claim also that the church of Christ is now organized though they now make less boastful claims to "divine authority" to teach and rule mankind in general, than the Papacy does." ~Watchtower 1893 p. 266

Good question, but I don't really know. Just thought you might like to see these quotes from "God's Only Visible Organization on Earth". They really blew me over. Funny thing is, these quotes make a good point. The question is, how did JWs go on to build a multimillion dollar corp after stating thus?

48

No Questions, No Answers!

by bjc2012 in

the road to god's "truth", divine truth, is the same.

it takes real, real "effort" before truth, divine truth can be achieved.

and therefore, they could not give it to us, this divine truth.

Cicatrix

Hi Bjc,

I considered what you had to say, but you lost me at the responsibility for being ignorant part.

Maybe because I was always "at fault" and always missed the mark according to the JWs.

I may be ignorant, but I will continue to search. Just not very much right now, because it still hurts.

Respectfully,

Cicatrix

33

help! my son is going to the th. night meeting...

by kaykay_mp in

...with my mom!

a) grab his left arm tightly while my mom grabs his right arm, with me saying, "over my dead body!"?.

b) not even care, since i would like one evening without hearing, "mine!

Cicatrix

{{{{{{{Kaykay}}}}}}

It's all just coming down at you at once. Hang in there girl. I like your spunk.

Love,

Cicatrix

1

help! part 2

by kaykay_mp in

everything was cool, until mother decided to come home early.

jordan got sleepy and cranky as usual.

nevertheless, i did get to spend some time alone with the baby.. .

Cicatrix

Sorry to hear about your rough day with your bro, Kaykay.

We just learned about paradigms in communications class last week. A paradigm is a set of rules and beliefs that a person gauges their life by. Your brother has the JW paradigm, and he can't see past the "Jehovah will provide" thing.(Which contrasts nicely with the "men are the head of the household and must provide" thing, I think).

My husband and I just talked about this yesterday. I DA'd myself recently(he was never JW). Most of my former congregation members keep asking aquaintances "how I am doing" economically. Guess, what--things are definitely not worse, they are better. But I don't really relate it to leaving myself, it's just a set of circumstances that worked in my favor.Part of the Witness Paradigm is that only Jehovah provides, or Satan if you leave Jehovah. Funny thing is, in reality, usually nothing changes drastically, except maybe our own view about effort bringing us a living for our family.

You realize this, now that your every thought is not controlled (if it ever was, I'm not familiar with your story). He does not. He's irritating, but take pity on him, dear. You are far better off than he.

I noticed when you relayed his words that there was a pleading quality to his voice when he said "Don't get mad at me, but are you coming back to the kingdom hall." Personally, I think he misses you. The Witness Paradigm thing may be getting in his way of expressing any real sentiment.And as one who has only nonWitness bros--believe me, they can all be annoying:):)

Your kids are really lucky to have a mom that cares so much about them. No, not luck--it was smarts and sheer determination that got you to where you are. Keep it up girl, and unload here anytime. We all need to do that now and then:)

16

Be careful you don't catch it

by kenpodragon in

jw
friends

i have several little nieces and nephews in my life.

in doing so i have watched them grow from being these little babies, to these children that run all over my house when they visit.

they are a lot of fun, but some of them have the most nasty of habits.

Cicatrix

I've always wondered why thumb sucking and nail biting are considered to be such negative things, maybe because I bit my nails until I was fourteen and I still occasionally suck my thumb when I'm under extreme stress and I have no other comfort. I have a theory that much of society is orally fixated because they weren't nurtured at their mother's breast for a long enough period of time(mine time was a mere two months).But really, who the heck are they hurting, anyway?

There. I inserted my foot firmly in my oral cavity.Hehe.

Great topic, Kenopdragon.

12

Not Everyone Celebrates Halloween!

by BeautifulGarbage in

jw
friends

i got this in my email today from my zealot jw aunt.

this is the first time she has ever sent me anything of this nature.

she is completely aware than i am not a jw and that i celebrate holidays.

Cicatrix

Hi Beautiful,

I like what Francois had to say( but maybe leave out the reference to superstitious country people-that may cause some problems with some who would take that literally). When I was a JW, I was aware of the link with "paganism" and wedding rings and stopped wearing mine. Boy, was I ever blasted for that one by the JWs! Another thing that made me sit up and take notice was the reference in Job to his children celebrating "their day".Sure sounded like a birthday to me when I was made aware of it!

The sad thing is, alot of JW kids are just parroting the party line. When we quit, I asked my kids if they wanted to celebrate Halloween. All but one said no, and later, even that one changed their mind.They all had a wonderful time at the pumpkin farm last weekend, and all of us are dressing up for Halloween (even the adults lol).

The fact is, there are a lot of people who don't celebrate Halloween, but far from being "united in mind"(hehe-remember that phrase?), they do so for a lot of different reasons. Heck, my son-in-law's family doesn't celebrate it, and they HATE Jehovah's Witnesses(threatened to disown him when he told them he was marrying my daughter and they knew her background-event though she was never baptised and had already quit attending meetings). So much for everyone "speaking in agreement". And the fact remains that most people in the United States and lots of other countries DO celebrate it.

Personally, if you don't think it will make any kind of impact, I don't know if I would even bite on this one. You may just end up the "opposing relative story of the week." I would say, "Well, I appreciate you sharing your heartfelt beliefs, but I don't view things the same way."My family did this for years to my mom--took the wind right out of her sails.

I really appreciate the fact that you care enough about her to go through all the trouble to search for some way to reach her though. That really shows the caliber of person you are, Beautiful:)

Happy Happy Halloween

Cicatrix