Scully: LOL-Quite awhile before I even considered leaving the JWs,I made the terrible mistake of making and hanging winter decorations for a sledding/skating party I had for the children in our congregation. It didn't even seem to matter that they had SCRIPTURES FROM THE NWT on them. Somehow, snowmen, sleds, snowflakes, and mittens, were considered to be "stumbling"!Never did understand that one. It didn't deter me from having parties and decorating. I was just a little more careful with the guest list after that.
Cicatrix
JoinedPosts by Cicatrix
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21
Don't want to celebrate holidays even with my daughter...
by cognac ini feel like its so much work, stressful, commercialized and since i never formed the habit of it i hate the idea of celebrating them.
i wouldn't mind buying presents for my daughter on christmas and maybe doing a treasure hunt for halloween (i don't want her taking candy from even my neighbors) and things like that so she doesn't feel left out or like she's missing something.
just something easy and informal...
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21
Don't want to celebrate holidays even with my daughter...
by cognac ini feel like its so much work, stressful, commercialized and since i never formed the habit of it i hate the idea of celebrating them.
i wouldn't mind buying presents for my daughter on christmas and maybe doing a treasure hunt for halloween (i don't want her taking candy from even my neighbors) and things like that so she doesn't feel left out or like she's missing something.
just something easy and informal...
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Cicatrix
Unlike Bluecanary and Greenie, in our family, we DID have regular gift giving days for our children. They got little gifts before assemblies and conventions, and a larger gift when we got home. We also had "Toy Day" once a year,and whenever a new sibling was added to the family, the baby gave all of the other children presents. But that is just NOT the same as sharing cultural holiday traditions. That is what taught me that holidays are NOT about the commercial elements, that instead they are about shared activities and cherished familiy traditions.
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Don't want to celebrate holidays even with my daughter...
by cognac ini feel like its so much work, stressful, commercialized and since i never formed the habit of it i hate the idea of celebrating them.
i wouldn't mind buying presents for my daughter on christmas and maybe doing a treasure hunt for halloween (i don't want her taking candy from even my neighbors) and things like that so she doesn't feel left out or like she's missing something.
just something easy and informal...
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Cicatrix
Hi Cognac,
The great thing about being out of the org is that there is no set way you have to do anything!Have whatever celebrations you please, however you please to have them, and ENJOY making your own decisions!
We do hear mostly about the commercial side of holidays in the media, but there are plenty of folks who view holidays as more of a shared cultural experience, and have more simple holiday traditions. They decide what elements of the holidays add something positive to their lives, and leave the rest behind.
If you want some examples and suggestions, try doing an internet search for simple christmas. There are also books on the subject.My library has several. I know, because I've checked them out.
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46
Roll call - How many here fake being a "good Jehovah's Witness"....like me!
by Witness 007 inthere is no truth...i know that.
to please my mum while she's alive and wife i go to meetings and the 3 day convention coming up.
i would rather go to the dentist.
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Cicatrix
They continue to exist because enough people are afraid to speak out against their deception.
To remain silent is to consent . We all have a choice and all that is needed for tyranny to succeed is that good men and women do nothing.
I so agree with the thought that deception can hurt people & we should speak out
I think this is true for some, but not necessarily for everyone. Many people still have family members who are very much involved with the WTS-family members that they need or that need them. I can see why they would choose to fake it to maintain a relationship.
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Roll call - How many here fake being a "good Jehovah's Witness"....like me!
by Witness 007 inthere is no truth...i know that.
to please my mum while she's alive and wife i go to meetings and the 3 day convention coming up.
i would rather go to the dentist.
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Cicatrix
I don't have to. I decided to invoke the Watchtower's own rules against them, as I didn't want to spend the rest of my life feeling as if I had to look over my shoulder to see who might be trying to "out" me from a fade.I wrote a very short DA letter, saying that I no longer wished to be considered a Jehovah's Witness. That is the only statement I made, and I repeated that phrase the entire time the elders grilled me and tried to get me to admit to some violation of org rules that they could use to label me as an enemy of the organisation with (I think it holds more weight if they have something "juicy" and more substantial they can tell some of the rank and file than just "So-and-so is no longer considered a JW").I wanted to go on my own terms, and not be kicked out on theirs.
I didn't write the letter because I was obeying the WTS rules, I wrote the letter because I didn't want to spend a number of years having JWs showing up at my door, trying to use fear-based tactics to guilt me into going back to meetings (where I would then continue to be "counseled," and "reproved" on a regular basis, because they chose to believe untrue garbage they heard about me from my non-JW in-laws), or trying to find something to fomate trumped-up charges against me to punish me with. A certain elder was already doing the latter with little success, thanks to my NON-JW in-laws, who were lying to the elders and using them to enact a family vendetta that had nothing to do with righteousness and EVERYTHING to do with who got the family business and their father's inheritance(certain elders' views toward domestic abuse, and their ready willingness to believe those outright lies of my in-laws really helped me to see the organisation for what it is-authoritarian, and HUMAN MADE).
The org didn't win, because their label "apostate" has no emotional connotation for me. Anyone who leaves a group with a certain ideology and no longer shares and obeys the particular beliefs of that group can technically be considered an apostate by dictionary definition. The word doesn't mean "evil" to me. It only means I no longer share their ideology, and I don't.THEY may have a certain loaded-language connotation in mind, but that doesn't mean I have to accept their definition, and I don't.Better yet, it gives me the right to tell them to stay away. If they don't, then they are hypocrites.
LOL-the in-laws didn't win, either. I live hundreds of miles away now, but last I heard, their father appointed his new girlfriend executor of his estate and gave her a lifetime lease on his property. He also put a reverse-mortgage on the house. It will cost them more in legal fees to fight his girlfriend in court on this than the estate is worth.
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Is there an honest way to make a living online?
by AK - Jeff inour area is hit hard by this recession.
unemployment is out the roof - close to 18%.. my wife has been trying to find work for over a year.
she has done so very diligently.
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Cicatrix
If she is the crafty type, she could try marketing her crafts at Etsy. I know of several people who have online businesses doing that.
If she is open to something that is not online, she could consider before and after school care for school age children. She could even combine that with an online endeavor.
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Apostates and the "AXE TO GRIND:" getting sick of the aggro.
by hamsterbait indoes anybody else get mad, when something rotten in the borg is exposed, and witless apologists question the motive of the whistleblower?.
"they must be an evil apostate filled with anger and an axe to grind" they say.. why can they never admit that some people believe that the wtbts is truly dangerous and evil - they are not speaking up about the facts they know because they are evil resentful apostates, but they truly want to protect the public.. they refuse to acquiesce in evil and want to stand up for what they believe to be right, not just as an anti-jw knee jerk reflex.
do jws honestly think that nobody but them has good motives for exposing religious hypocrisy - including that of the witchtower?.
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Cicatrix
They don't see it as being insulting, because "true believers" think in black and white, and the WTS can ONLY wear white hats. They see it as the opposite of insulting. They see it as being very loving.After all, the WTS are the sole earthly representatives of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, and the only ones annointed and approved to speak for him. Jehovah's four attributes are Justice, Mercy, Love, and ...(anyone else remember the other one-I can't off the top of my head), so he could NEVER make a mistake, and all of his decisions and commands are good. He is perfect. Humans are not (that is why sometimes there have to be corrections in the Watchtower. It's not that God sent the wrong message, or that they are not really the sole representatives of Jehovah, it's just that humans are imperfect and sometimes don't record the message right, or sometimes God sends "new light" to clarify something the brothers wrote down that God didn't think was a written down clearly enough by them).He makes the rules,which he then reveals to the WTS, who feel compelled solely by love for Jehovah and mankind to warn them of the dire results of not listening (not to mention the fact that they don't want all that bloodguilt heaped upon them, which might affect their OWN salvation). Humans are designed to be obedient, and follow their Creator by listening to His representatives here on earth. That would be the "Faithful and Discreet Slave." Anyone else who claims to speak for Jehovah are agents of Satan, deliberately misleading mankind and leading them to eternal death.
Hamster, they are INDOCTRINATED in this belief. They MUST believe it to be accepted in their organisation. They MUST speak against people they consider apostates, as their indoctrination and the WTS demand it.If they were to defend an apostate, they would be shunned. If they were to stay silent, they would be "bloodguilty."
I would consider it odd if they didn't question the whistleblower's motives, because that is how indoctrination works to keep the members obedient, and whistleblowers at bay and ineffective with the JW rank and file. It's a great feedback loop.
My guess is that you are having a hard time understanding this now, because you are outside of that feedback loop. Congratulations!
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20
Why is the act of stopping meeting attendance so significant?
by dozy inone aspect of the leaving jw process has long puzzled me why can a fading jw become mentally disinterested , miss loads of meetings , become irregular in the ministry , perhaps even become involved in minor worldly conduct without too much concern from relatives or the elders over a period of years , even decades.
yet as soon as they make it become known that they are not going to the meetings anymore, all hell breaks loose.
elders dust down their od books and come calling on shepherding visits , perhaps for the first time for many years.
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Cicatrix
It can also depend on your social standing at the hall. Some people can get away with missing more meetings than others because of who they know.However, this can also have the opposite effect if you are someone who has had a lot of "privileges" in the past.
If you tend to use a lot of the WTS language when you talk, don't ask questions that aren't at the bottom of the paragraphs, answer the questions from the paragraphs, and haven't made a lot of statements or expressed personal opinions that alert the others to any possible independent thinking that you might be doing, you stay under the radar a lot longer.
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Why is the act of stopping meeting attendance so significant?
by dozy inone aspect of the leaving jw process has long puzzled me why can a fading jw become mentally disinterested , miss loads of meetings , become irregular in the ministry , perhaps even become involved in minor worldly conduct without too much concern from relatives or the elders over a period of years , even decades.
yet as soon as they make it become known that they are not going to the meetings anymore, all hell breaks loose.
elders dust down their od books and come calling on shepherding visits , perhaps for the first time for many years.
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Cicatrix
It isn't just the fading JWs that get mentally disinterested. The meetings cover the same subjects over and over again, and anyone who goes regularly will find themselves tiring of hearing it from time to time. Even elders, COs and DOs get tired of the routine. I think subconsciously, or maybe even consciously, the others are aware of this, and don't say much when some members miss occasional meetings. It only becomes a problem when a lot of meetings are missed, because people who miss a lot of meetings are not there, listening to the special WT language that encourages/triggers them to remain fearful of the world outside of the Kingdom Hall,and unquestionally obedient to the FDS and GB.
This is also the reason that it becomes a huge problem when people stop attending meetings. If you are not there, you are not repeatedly hearing the current WTS regulations, and what will happen to you if you don't follow said regulations. In this situation, there arises the chance for you to start to reason on these matters on your own (and perhaps realize the authoritarian, overbearing nature of the regulations), without an accompanying "warning message" being delivered that creates a constant state of fear and anxiety, which can keep someone who is constantly exposed to this loaded language adherent to the party line.
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What Did You Have For Dinner? Thread
by Yizuman inwife and i had steak, baked potatoes and peas.
wife also had before dinner was sald w/ ranch dressing w/ bacon bits.
(edit, forgot the bits).
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Cicatrix
Homemade broccoli cheese soup with broccoli we grew in our garden