OutNFree,
Thank-you for your encouraging words.It was interesting what you said
about trying to push the spouse away hoping to find some scriptural
grounds for divorce.I beleive that is often the case.The sister I
mentioned had been hurt in many ways by her opposing husband.In some
ways,I suppose she did try to work through it,but it seemed to strike
him as wall building.I believe it is to the orgs. advantage for marriages to un-believers to break up.It creates a stronger sense of
loyalty in the Witness who remains faithful to Jehovah and is has
a burning the bridges effect emotionally.Some time ago a sister who
chose the org. over her husband and got divorced as a result called
with serious questions about the org.,but when it came right down to
it ,it was impossible for her to go back,so she stopped asking questions.The thought of all those years being wasted was too overwhelming. JWD
Posts by JWD
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14Hate Your Enemies!!
by JWD ini was standing by the copy machine at a convience store here in japan.
when a local elder who i`ve know for some years came up to me and.
threatened me (his breath had the distinct smell of a couple too many.
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JWD
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53
WHY APOSTATES THEMSELVES ARE DOOMED!!!
by You Know inall mankind stands condemned before god, and yet some are more reprehensible than others are.
as an example, christ called the original christian apostate, judas, the son of destruction.
so too, and not surprisingly, the activities of modern day apostates are said to awaken the judgment from of old, so that "the destruction of them is not slumbering.
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JWD
To `You Know`,
I never have been able to figure out what is scarry about the WTS view
of judgement. If you leave the so-called truth or oppose the WT organization you face what...? Annihilation which is...non-existence.
So,whether you commit suicide,or for that matter homicide,the worst
thing that can happen to you is that you die and become...non-existent
...? So what? What`s frightening about not-existing.Before I was born
I didn`t exist and I can`t remember it being painful or distressing.
So,in the WT`s version of judgement I`ll just end up back where I
started. I ask again, so what?Now, the standard protestant view of judgement is much more frightening. In that version you have to pay for you sins with eternal
punishment.`Fear not him who can destroy your body.Rather fear Him who after having destroyed your body can destroy your soul in Hell` Now that is SCARRY!The WT uses terms like `judgement` and `destruction`,but when you get
right down to it,there`s no lasting punishment,thus nothing really to
worry about. If judgement were to began in WT style and the possibility of a painful death became apparent suicide would be an
easy way out. The standard protestant view doesn`t allow for such an
option since the soul faces eternal punishment.So I ask Mr. `You Know`,if you were to believe Christian church`s
view of judgement people such as yourself would suffer for eternity
in constant agony and separation from God.On the other hand,if you
take the WT view,people like me will become non-existent and not
ressurect on the paradise earth.So honestly,which is the most frightening?When thought through logically,the WT scare tactics truly lack
punch.Maybe, a step back to the Babylonian view of judgement would
work better to keep the R&F in lock-step. JWD -
29
Will You Make Room for Pioneering?
by TMS inregardless of scriptural implications, creating special categories of service such as colporteur, pioneer, special pioneer, etc.
was a brilliant move.. the prestige, status and few little perks associated with those committing to being full-time workers is miniscule compensation for their sacrifice of time, lifestyle, income and educational opportunities.. yes, the hour requirements have dropped on several occasions.
how many on the board know that the regular pioneer requirement was once 150 hours a month, then 1200 hours a year, than 1000, now 90-vacation/assembly time?.
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JWD
Here in Japan it is 70 hours for regular pioneers and 50 for vacation
pioneers.Isn`t it the same all over the world?One friend went to the KH after missing a meeting only to find that
she had been volunteered to be a pioneer by the elder in her absence.
He felt she`d appreciate the privaledge...?Ever wondered why the society wants you to count time rather than
contacts or meaningful conversations? I think the main issue is
schedule control.Tying up bros.` time is the best way to keep them
`theocratic` and keep them away from dangerous or questionable
activities such as... well, like maybe loging on the internet..?
If they paid even a dollar per hour for FS, they`d change their
policy immediately because it is tremendously cost ineffective.
Several years back I figured the average number of hours the JWs
use here in Japan to gain one baptism.It came to some ridiculus
figure.Something like 10,000 hours of FS per baptism. I think
the figures are even worse now. JWD -
14
Hate Your Enemies!!
by JWD ini was standing by the copy machine at a convience store here in japan.
when a local elder who i`ve know for some years came up to me and.
threatened me (his breath had the distinct smell of a couple too many.
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JWD
At the beginning of the thread I mentioned a sister,in for 20 years,
who told her husband she was praying that Jehovah would destroy him.
I didn`t mention it earlier,but her husband was later diagnosed with
cancer and died last November.About two years prior to that her oldest
daughter chose to marry a non-JW and was dfed for living with him
before marriage.One of her sons later took up smoking and some other
non-theocratic hobbies and has since become inactive.With five children,that leaves three in the org.,two out.More recently,her
dfed daughter gave birth to her first child.All of these things have
had a mellowing affect on the sister.With her `opposer` husband gone,
fighting for the TRUTH seems to have lost some of it`s excitment.It`s
undoubtedly the result of what was mentioned earlier about the galvan-
izing affect of having an enemy to hate.Without the `enemy`the fight
isn`t so thrilling. JWD -
14
Hate Your Enemies!!
by JWD ini was standing by the copy machine at a convience store here in japan.
when a local elder who i`ve know for some years came up to me and.
threatened me (his breath had the distinct smell of a couple too many.
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JWD
I was standing by the copy machine at a convience store here in Japan
when a local elder who I`ve know for some years came up to me and
threatened me (his breath had the distinct smell of a couple too many
beers.Must have had a hard day out in FS).Anyway,that was just one
incident among many.Repeated late night anonymous calls,name calling,
etc. A man I know who`s wife has been in the `TRUTH` for 20 years was
told by her that she was praying to Jehovah asking Him to destroy her
husband (the husband was an opposer).Another friend of mine who was
in the org.for 15 years disassociated. After leaving the org. her daughter told her that she would laugh when Jehovah destroyed her
at Armageddon. One time when I tried to talk to a pioneer brother he
not only refused to listen to me, but threw a cup of tea at me!!
My question is, `Where does all this HATE come from?` `Isn`t the
difference between Christians and those who aren`t, that Christians
love their enemies? Wasn`t it Jesus who said that anyone loves their
friends, but the real test is whether or not you love you enemies?
Didn`t Christ greet Judas by calling him `friend` right before being
betrayed? Didn`t Jesus wash Judas`s feet? So where is the vindication
for hating your enemies? Are the `Vindictive Psalms` the almighty
excuse for hating people? Were they not written pre-Christ?It seems part of the problem is the society`s redefining of the very
meaning of the word `Love`.If giving people the cold shoulder brings
them back to the `mother org.` then it must be love.Re-defining terms is a common practice among `new religions`.The
most notorious group here in Japan , AUM (the group that placed the
nerve gas on the subway) has a teaching called `POR`.It`s the idea
that if you kill an `un-worthy` you are actually aiding them on their
way to nirvana.Therefore;killing them is actually viewed as KINDNESS!
Sounds strikingly similar to the teaching that refusing blood and
dying is a sure way to make it into the paradise earth...
So how did Hating become Loving and Killing become Giving Life? JWD -
12
Wanted
by TheHighPriest inthe new testament states that a warrant was issued for the arrest of jesus and that judas was the man that turned him in.. this warrant would have carried a description of the man that called himself the king of the jews, however this description did not find it's way into the bible.. this seem's a bit odd in particular since after all it would be interesting to know what the messiah really looked like.. i mean, think about it, if you had the chance to record the events of a man of such importance would you not include a description of his image?.
the appearance of jesus has been a subject of disscusion amongst many jw's (and other christians aswell i'm sure) and i remember many such occassions when the topic was being discussed and needles to say the opinions on this matter differed greatly.. the one opinion however that usually prevailed was that of a strong well built man, after all he was a carpenter etc.... as i said there is no such description in the bible, however, it was reported by josephus in his "capture of jerusalem".. now, i don't know whether this report is a genuine one or not, maybe jh can throw some light on that, but a copy of josephus description has survived in slavonic texts and it paints a picture quite at odds with the image many people have painted for themselves:.
'...a man of simple appearance, mature age, dark skin, small stature, three cubits high, hunchbacked with a long face, long nose, and meeting eyebrows, so that they who see him might be affrighted, with scanty hair with a parting in the middle of his head, after the manner of the nazarites, and with an undeveloped beard.'.
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JWD
Mommie Dark,
You talk about reading the original readings and not commentaries.I`d
be curious how much reading you have done in the original languages.
Admitedly,there are many things I haven`t read as there is undoubtedly
no end to the sacred writings of various religions.When it comes to
ancient Japanese religions,however,I`m sure I have an upper hand on
most people on this board.I`m fluent in Japanese and have read and
studied much about Japanese religions in Japanese.When I go back to the States,I find that Americans are getting all excited about Japanese religous teachings in English which have been given a distinctly western flavoring(i.e. Zen, NSA, Tenrikyo, Singonshu,etc).
The `American Versions` which are being popularized among trendy
`progressive` people in the States bear very little resemblance to
the original thing. I`m certainly not familiar with all religions
by any means, but when it comes to Japanese religions and their
ancestors in China and Tibet, I`m very familiar.I`ve been there,done
that. JWD -
4
Free Labor!!
by JWD inseveral years back i was listening to a man who lived in a religious.
community tell about how much god had blessed them.the main evidences.
of god`s blessings were the impressive buildings and beautifully manicured grounds, complete with lovely flower gardens.this organization`s method of operations was to have everybody live together and work in the community`s various businesses.they manufactured some products and also had a growing printing and publishing operation.. .
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JWD
Friends of ours here in Japan were in for 42 years.They gave over
$30,000 to the org. in 1974 to help build KHs.The husband served as
an elder for many years.He went out on FS with Llyod Barry.One day
Brother Barry told him that before the new bridge `Akashikaikyo-Ohashi` was built Armageddon would come.(The bridge was dedicated 3
years ago and Barry dropped dead at a convention).Our friend was
made to step down from being an elder after he sent his daughter to
college.It was said it would cause people to stumble...Three years ago the couple left the org.Their reward for 42 years of
faithful service...? Well, you all know the answer to that one.The
usual...shunning, rumors about what bad people they`ve become,etc.
As to their $30,000...? JWD -
12
Wanted
by TheHighPriest inthe new testament states that a warrant was issued for the arrest of jesus and that judas was the man that turned him in.. this warrant would have carried a description of the man that called himself the king of the jews, however this description did not find it's way into the bible.. this seem's a bit odd in particular since after all it would be interesting to know what the messiah really looked like.. i mean, think about it, if you had the chance to record the events of a man of such importance would you not include a description of his image?.
the appearance of jesus has been a subject of disscusion amongst many jw's (and other christians aswell i'm sure) and i remember many such occassions when the topic was being discussed and needles to say the opinions on this matter differed greatly.. the one opinion however that usually prevailed was that of a strong well built man, after all he was a carpenter etc.... as i said there is no such description in the bible, however, it was reported by josephus in his "capture of jerusalem".. now, i don't know whether this report is a genuine one or not, maybe jh can throw some light on that, but a copy of josephus description has survived in slavonic texts and it paints a picture quite at odds with the image many people have painted for themselves:.
'...a man of simple appearance, mature age, dark skin, small stature, three cubits high, hunchbacked with a long face, long nose, and meeting eyebrows, so that they who see him might be affrighted, with scanty hair with a parting in the middle of his head, after the manner of the nazarites, and with an undeveloped beard.'.
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JWD
The Bible states that Christ was not of attractive appearance.I`ve
often thought that it probably would have been HARDER to believe had
we have seen him than it is having not seen him.Sight can be quite
an obstacle to faith. Naturally,faith in something that is only
imaginary is meaningless as well.I beleive, it is the incredible
uniqueness and agelessness of Christ`s teaching and actions which
make him most appealing.Living in Japan for so many years,I have
read about many other religions both new and old and have yet to
find anything that has as much authenticity or applicability as
does biblical teaching and the teaching of Christ. JWD -
4
Free Labor!!
by JWD inseveral years back i was listening to a man who lived in a religious.
community tell about how much god had blessed them.the main evidences.
of god`s blessings were the impressive buildings and beautifully manicured grounds, complete with lovely flower gardens.this organization`s method of operations was to have everybody live together and work in the community`s various businesses.they manufactured some products and also had a growing printing and publishing operation.. .
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JWD
People`s lifestyle is greatly affected by their perception of the
future.A person who is dying of some terminal illness is likely not
to be so concerned about his investment portfolio.Likewise if people
can be convinced that the end of the world is right around the corner,
their `survival` instincts kick in and they are likely more willing
to sacrifice their future for the sake of `safety`.The catch is that
in time the future becomes the present and sacrifices which have been
made are often irreversable.People who have lived their lives on a
shoestring because they believe the promises of the WTS are a classic
case of victims of `false advertising`.In the real world a company
which doesn`t live of to it`s promise can be sued for liable.The WTS
society,however, hides behind the wall of religion and escapes making
restitution to the people who have suffered irreparable financial
damage due to false end-times prophecy.Even most main line religious groups offer some sort of financial aid or post-retirement support to those who`ve given their lives for the organization.In some cases, even if the person renounces the group or religion, they are still entitled to the financial aid for their years service.No so for the WT slaves.The WT has a policy not to invest in things which don`t turn a profit.
Have you ever given any thought to their choice of Bible translations. There are only a little more than a dozen NWT translations and ALL OF THEM are in languages which already
have several good translations.Why? Why not translate into
languages which have no translation whatsoever?
It`s because there isn`t a significant JW population to make those translations financially viable.Thus we have a German,Japanese, Spanish,English, etc. trans.There are over 2000 languages which have Bible translations.99% of those have been done by `Protestant and Catholic` believers.In some cases they will commit as much as 20 years to a translation project!I met a man when I was in the Philippines 21 years ago who was doing
a Bible translation for an island which only had 5000 residents.
The society would never take on such a project.It would be more
costly and wouldn`t turn a profit.By the way, recently here in Japan the society cut back on special
pioneers.They were paying them about $500 a month.It`s seen as a
cost-cutting measure. JWD -
17
Jokes - Revived
by Francois inhere are just a few, just to see if it flies:.
messages to the ladies:.
sometimes we're not thinking about you.
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JWD
Q:What do you get when you cross an agnostic and a Jehovah`s Witness?
A: A guy who goes door knocking... but doesn`t know why.Q:Did you hear about the dyslectic,agnostic,insomniac?
A:He laid awake at night wondering whether or not there as a DOG!