ZeusRocks

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Posts by ZeusRocks

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  19

  How Long Has The Christ Been Invisibly Present?

  by wannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how long has the christ been invisibly present?.

  i don't know as i have covered this one before or not, but can't we say that jesus has been invisibly present ever since his ascension in the first century?

  didn't he indicate that he was in this following scripture?.

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  ZeusRocks

  Almost 2000 years when some people decided they needed a hero so they wrote a few stories. He was invisible then and is invisible now.

  Horus has been invisibly present for a lot longer....I miss him seeing him, I wish he'd come down and say hello.
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  19

  Door to door atheists in Utah bothering the Mormons

  by ldrnomo in

  1. social
  2. humour

  http://www.boiseweekly.com/cobweb/archives/2010/07/22/door-to-door-atheists-strike-back-in-utah.

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  ZeusRocks

  Hahaha. They can dish it out but they can't take it.
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  190

  What's your personality type? Myers-Briggs test

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  take this 72 yes/no question test to find out.. http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp.

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  ZeusRocks

  Your Type is INTJ

  Introverted	Intuitive	Thinking	Judging
  Strength of the preferences %
  67	62	1	1

  INTJ type description by D.Keirsey
  INTJ Identify Your Career with Jung Career Indicator™ INTJ Famous Personalities
  INTJ type description by J. Butt and M.M. Heiss

  Qualitative analysis of your type formula

  You are:

  • distinctively expressed introvert
  • distinctively expressed intuitive personality
  • slightly expressed thinking personality
  • slightly expressed judging personality
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  73

  Is God Necessary for Morality?

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is god necessary for morality?.

  below are videos of two debates on this topic.

  each debate features dr. william lane craig, an american evangelical apologist, theologian and philosopher.

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  ZeusRocks

  There is one word of God for a christian and that is Jesus, the bible is simply what points in his direction but it does not define jesus or God.

  The bible itself is a christians foundation of who or what god and jesus are. It's what we were all indoctrinated from. The bible does define god and jesus. Every christian uses their own moral compass to decide for themselves what god and jesus are based on what is written in the bible and how they are going to interpret it. Outside of the biblical writings, god and a divine jesus don't exist.

  I could raise a child from birth and from a young age, read them Hans Christian Anderssons fairytales on a continuous basis explaining that Hans is the creator of everything and he had these stories written in order to teach us valuable lessons. Heck I could even make up a songbook in praise of Hans. This child has never seen Hans, heard his voice, had any experience whatsoeves with him, yet I teach this child to pray to him, because he is the hearer of prayers. I'll even add that we are so wretched according to his standards that he believes we deserve to die from the moment we are born. But he loves us so much that he got someone else to die in our place and now if we believe in that, we are saved by his grace and mercy. I could then go a write down a whole lot of rules that this child will have to follow and tell them these are the Laws of Hans. Hans is not only their moral authority, but legal one as well.

  Now if got everyone in my immediate circle of family and friends to go along with this, this child would grow up no different than any christian out there, except for the fact that they believe Hans is the creator and the christian god is a false god along with the array of other gods out there. It wouldn't be hard, type out the different stories, add my own feelings, thoughts, hopes and dreams, get it printed up and bound and voila, I now can make anyone believe what I want them too if I start at a young enough age.

  Indoctrination or appeals to emotion are the two main ways someone could believe a supernatural claim without evidence. After all, if someone was raised in the cult of Isis and came across a christian, they would dismiss YWHW and jesus as just mythology and vice-verse. If someone was raised to believe in what is true and demonstrable and verifiable came across these two people, they both would be dismissed as followers of mythology. To someone not indoctrinated god beliefs come across as mere mythology.

  Against the beliefs of this child, the christian god has no more merit and is no more the source of anything that Hans. And against the findings of different scientific fields it comes off as self delusion as we have evidence both biological and psychological of why we have morals and how they came about and how they are continuously evolving.

  Which scripture was being referenced here? not the NT, it hadn't been written yet.

  The OT? well Paul made it clear that the "law" was in many was obsolete, just as the OC wa.

  Well someone sure as hell didn't tell Jesus that since he frequently referred to Old Testament writings as authoritive. Do you claim to know something he didn't? How many times have people read Jesus say,"It is written", and every single time he was referring to the Old Testament. Paul made clear a lot of things and most of it goes against what we today would class as a normal range of moral behaviour.

  Most christians only believe this stuff because the early church put a bible together, used it as their claim to divine authority, spread the christian god doctrine across the world at the threat of convert or be tortured and killed. It wasn't spread through love. And the only way to do this was with the bible and threats. Parents convert, and fearing the safety of their children, they are left with little choice but the teach their children this and the pattern continues through the ages.

  It is a book of writings by people inspired to write about their God, their world, their hopes and dreams, what they saw, what they felt, what they believed.

  Is some of it inspired by God? Yes.

  Is most of it written simply by Man? Actually, ALL of it is.

  I'm fully aware it is written by man. I am also fully aware that there is nothing uniquely inspirational contained within the bible that isn't contained in various god beliefs over the world.

  This is your explaination of the bible, nothing more. You have no evidence that your claim of what the bible is, is any more valid than the JW's. It's all opinion and interpretation based on whoever is reading it and what their personal feeling are. There are millions of christians who would disagree with your interpretation and yet you would have no argument that could prove the validity of your point of view regarding the bible.

  Your moral compass sees in the bible what it wants to see and it will interpret it as such. Just like every other christian on this planet and this is why you have thousands of christian denominations believing a wide variety of things, and viewing the bible in different degrees and none of them have any evidence that how they interpret it is the correct way.

  Belief influences our actions, and for me personally, since what I believe influences my actions and how I view the world and the people in it, I would want to make sure that my beliefs were demonstrably and verifiably based on facts, and have as few false beliefs as possible.

  Fact is fact no matter what a person believes.
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  73

  Is God Necessary for Morality?

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is god necessary for morality?.

  below are videos of two debates on this topic.

  each debate features dr. william lane craig, an american evangelical apologist, theologian and philosopher.

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  ZeusRocks

  Ah, I see, YOU think because, in your view, the bible is God's word and I assume, infalliable, then what was written by ancient man in regards to man's view of what God wanted and allowed, then that must be what God allows and condones, is that it?

  In my view the bible is not the word of any god. But the bible itself claims it is. A christians only reference for who god is or what he wants, is contained in the bible. To ingore parts of his personality you are showing your own moral judgement.

  2 Timothy 3:16 (New International Version)

  16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

  You have used your own judgement to come to the conclusion that this passage in the bible is false.

  The bible is the biggest book of mulitple choice this planet has ever seen.
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  73

  Is God Necessary for Morality?

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is god necessary for morality?.

  below are videos of two debates on this topic.

  each debate features dr. william lane craig, an american evangelical apologist, theologian and philosopher.

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  ZeusRocks

  Thanks Syl,

  I just hope I didn't come across as brash. I'm not use to debating very much and hopefully PSacramento didn't find me offensive. I do realise at the end of the day we all have our own beliefs and because of our upbringing and where were born and through our experiences, our beliefs will differ. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree and as long it doesn't negatively impact on another, no harm in disagreeing.
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  73

  Is God Necessary for Morality?

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is god necessary for morality?.

  below are videos of two debates on this topic.

  each debate features dr. william lane craig, an american evangelical apologist, theologian and philosopher.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  ZeusRocks

  I do not think it teaches morality per say, though it CAN if understood correctly

  No, the bible is either god's word or it isn't. Here is where you are using your own sense of morality to decide what the bible is, ignoring the fact the bible itself claims divine inspiration from god. So you are really saying that YOU will decide how you are going to interpret the bible.

  Jesus gave up his divinity to be US and lived like US and felt pain and sorrow and happiness like US, he also "died" in the most hirrible fashion available to US, feeling ALL the pain possible for US to feel,

  Your right. In the bible Jesus gave up his divinity TEMPORARILY, though he did not die in the most horrible fashion, humans thoughout the ages have been killed in worse fashions than him. He did not feel all the pain possible for us to feel. He didn't know how it felt to be raped, or constant hunger your whole life or what it's like to be struck down with disease.

  and he did that for US to show US that were are deserving of God's "Grace" and undying love.

  So really, what you're saying is that the only way god and jesus could show us that we deserve "grace" and this "undying love" is for someone to be offered up as a human sacrifice. That makes them no better than the pagan gods of canaan with their human sacrifices. Even if this god was real, who in their right mind would want to worship a god who requires a blood sacrifice.

  There is nothing immoral about that, I as a parent would do as much for any or my children and family members if I had to.

  That's the thing though isn't it....IF YOU HAD TO. God DIDN'T HAVE TO do things the way he did. He could have chosen any number of ways to set things right (after all he is all powerful), but his morality only allowed for a blood human sacrifice. Even most societies today have a higher moral code than that.

  I see you've mentioned nothing about the other topics I brought up regarding genocide, slavery etc that god also feels is sometimes acceptable. If you say your morality comes from god then you HAVE to believe these things are acceptable at times.

  The fact that you can't bring yourself to say that it is okay to sometimes commit genocide or to own other people or kill kids for showing disrespect, shows that your morality does not come from god.

  At the end of the day, people can believe what they want to believe, no matter the mental gymnastics involved in order to rationalize irrational behaviour by the christian god, but to say god is necessary for, or the source of morality is demonstrably false.
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  73

  Is God Necessary for Morality?

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is god necessary for morality?.

  below are videos of two debates on this topic.

  each debate features dr. william lane craig, an american evangelical apologist, theologian and philosopher.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  ZeusRocks

  If this is a "Jesus and God" metaphore, I don't think you understand the nature of Jesus's sacrifice.

  I understand the nature of the sacrifice. Substitutory atonement is not moral no matter how you look at it. What you're really saying is that it's not okay for humans to do what god and jesus did, but it's okay that they did it.

  There is a reason you stated this first off. It's because YOUR sense of morality cannot condone this course of action and you have to defend it because of your beliefs. I get that. But the fact remains, your own sense of morality has to be ignored in order for you to think that god and jesus did the right thing and the best thing.

  The execution of an innocent person who committed no crime was the only way to rectify the situation, which for an all powerful god with supposed limitless knowledge is the most pathetic use of moral judgement. He could have chosen many ways, but he had to have a blood sacrifice of innocence, which is downright criminal. He behaved no better than all the other pagan gods whose followers believed in human sacrifice.

  And of course you have made no mention of the other atrocious acts contained in the bible. If your moral guide is god, then you would have to agree that everything he does is moral and that you cannot decide for yourself what is right and wrong. If one day he told you to kill someone, you would have to do it, because god is your moral guide and it must be a good thing. Some people would say, "God would never say that", but the fact is he has said it many many times. You would have no moral code of your own, but I know for a fact you do, otherwise you would advocate, say, slavery for example as acceptable. After all god allowed it, regulated it in an extremely immoral and inhumane way, jesus never denounced it and the apostle paul enforced it by telling the runaway slave to return to his master as he was his property.

  The fact that you cannot condone these actions shows that your morality does not come from the god of the bible and the way most christians live their lives shows that they don't think many of jesus teaching are relevant for day to day living.

  I do NOT believe in absolute morality for Man,

  Do you believe that god is the absolute moral authority?

  If your answer is yes, then you have given up any sense of right and wrong. He could command anything and it would become moral. EVERYTHING god has ever done as written in the bible has to be good in your eyes, which would actually be sickening and inhumane.

  If your answer is no, then you are your own moral authority and what god considers moral has no bearing on what you personally consider moral.

  though I believe it to be an ideal to strive for

  I believe that too. And morality has evolved. Our morality today is superior to what is contained in the bible. It is superior to what was considered moral 100 years ago. Most of the world condemned Hitler for his actions. He had his reasons for doing what he did and he felt he was just in doing it, yet most of the world considers what he did as atrocious. In progressive societies, slavery has become unacceptable. Yet before it was justifiable because people had the backing of the bible. Over time morals change as societies change and it happens not because of the god of the bible, but in spite of him.
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  62

  Your favorite JW'isms...."Brother leave it in Jehovah's hands" Post yours.

  by UnConfused in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  bring back the memories.

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  ZeusRocks

  "Wait on Jehovah"

  Sometimes I would either ask a question or make a comment that conflicted with the WTS take on something, the response I always got was, "Ooo, be careful, you shouldn't question Jehovah".
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  40

  If The Watchtower Ruled the World...

  by brotherdan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during my "intervention" the other night, an interesting thing was brought up that i remember hearing all through my life.

  i think even the wt has commented on it a time or two.. the girl i was talking to said, "can you just imagine what this world would be like if it was run by jehovah's witnesses?!?

  " she was saying this so as to prove her point that jehovah's witnesses have love and would never go to war nor break the law.

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  ZeusRocks

  I would hate to think. It would be something out of the Stepford Wives or Invasion of the Body Snatchers.