Posts by witness2witness

37

Do you stil have Jw stuff

by d in

i still have jw stuff like bibles and watchtower i have to get rid of.

do you any of you guys and girls here have stuff you to get rid of..

As a Christian apologist (who is dedicated to reaching out to JWs), I would gladly take your old Watchtower literature off your hands (and will pay for shipping). Please PM me if you would be interested working something out.

Thanks!

W2W

9

Has anyone learned how to read hebrew?

by EndofMysteries in

if so, did you take a class, use a program, and how long or how many hours of study/learning would it realistically take to be able to read the bible in hebrew from when you begin to learn?

.

i am trying to decide if it's something i want to pursue since bible translations and even interlinears seem to cloud out some key messages and phrases.

witness2witness

Greek is very useful, as one can (obviously) study through the New Testament, but also, the Septuagint (which most scholars argue was the bible that a 1st century Jew would have used anyway). Honestly, reading Right to Left was not that difficult (in Hebrew). It's just that in Hebrew there is little to no point of contact with English, whereas with Greek, there is a closer starting point...although, TRUST ME...This does not make it "easier." I actually got a better grade in my first Hebrew grammar class then I did in my first Greek grammar class, and I worked MUCH HARDER at Greek.

Since Hebrew is a Semitic language (and biblical Hebrew being a dead language for MANY years), you really need to have the aid of a tutor.

9

Has anyone learned how to read hebrew?

by EndofMysteries in

if so, did you take a class, use a program, and how long or how many hours of study/learning would it realistically take to be able to read the bible in hebrew from when you begin to learn?

.

i am trying to decide if it's something i want to pursue since bible translations and even interlinears seem to cloud out some key messages and phrases.

witness2witness

I went through Hebrew last year at the Master's level (I am currently in seminary). Honestly, after taking the two terms of grammar, and then taking a term of interpretation (exegesis), I still do not feel as though I "know" it. If I actually wanted to become anywhere near proficient, it would take a few years of intense study, with the aid of a good instructor. Right now I am taking Greek and am hoping to have more success.

Depending on where you live, you could possibly take Hebrew from a seminary (although, if you do not have a Bachelors Degree already, you would have to take it as an auditor).

One thing I will assert, though, is that after studying a year of Hebrew (and now, going on to my 2nd term in Greek), I think that we often minimize the English translations that we currently have. Yes, there is GREAT VALUE in learning the original language, and I would not trade this experience. However, aside from nuance (i.e., aspects of the text that will only appear because of reading in the original), the English translations are very sound, and can be held to a high level of security (this is assuming that one is working with a good translation).

I can (dogmatically) assert this, that the emphasis that I would formally place on "word studies" has completely gone out the window. Aside from their context, a word don't mean SQUAT! If you are sticking with a NASB or ESV, you will have no problem in your intepretation!

Hope that helps.

15

Is It Normal for a JW to give a Return Visit print-outs of information?

by Broken Promises in

yesterday i had another visit from a jw who has started calling on me after a few discussions.

i wrote about her in a previous thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/209531/1/jw-at-my-door-admits-that-shee28099s-had-doubts i'm pretending to be an interested one, and we've had some nice discussions.

i am trying to get her to research her religion via "innocent" questions i bring up.. i've noticed that each time she calls on me, she's given me printed information.

witness2witness

I've had the same experience. I later found out that my JW was merely printing articles from the CD-Rom.

At one point I was meeting with the C.O. on one day, and a member from his congregation on another. The pioneer had printed off something that was not "official WT literature." When I asked the C.O. about it, he became upset and informed me that no JW should give out information that was not official.

41

How long did it take you to get rid of your WTS library & literature?

by Think About It in

jw
friends

it took me a little over 2 years from the time i quit going.

been out 15 years now and no wts literature since.. .

think about it .

witness2witness

In all seriousness....I am working on my Masters in Theology, and have a love for JWs. I already have a ton of literature, but am always looking to add to the collection. If anyone is looking to get rid of material, and wants it to go to a home that is focused on witnessing to witnesses, let me know.

W2W

3

Any East Bay (CA) JWs?

by witness2witness in

jw
friends

hey, is there anyone here who is (or has been) a member of the brentwood/oakley/discovery bay congregations?

.

i could use some help in regards to a jw i have been encountering.

witness2witness

Hi Mark,

I have had some interaction with many of the members from that KH. However, they have recently ended our study (not my choice). I am curious if anyone might know these guys personally in hopes to plant some more seeds.

3

Any East Bay (CA) JWs?

by witness2witness in

jw
friends

hey, is there anyone here who is (or has been) a member of the brentwood/oakley/discovery bay congregations?

.

i could use some help in regards to a jw i have been encountering.

witness2witness

Hey, is there anyone here who is (or has been) a member of the Brentwood/Oakley/Discovery Bay Congregations?

I could use some help in regards to a JW I have been encountering.

Thanks

W2W

31

Watchtower's Jesus = Michael doctrine

by Ding in

i've never really understood the watchtower's teaching on jesus being michael.

here is what i understand they teach:.

1. jehovah's first creation was the archangel michael.. 2. jesus was nothing more than a perfect man, not michael the archangel in human form.. 3. rather, when jesus was conceived in mary, michael went out of existence and his impersonal life force was put into jesus (analogous to sharing the same pacemaker).. 4. when jesus died, his impersonal life force went back into a recreated archangel michael.. .

witness2witness

peacedog,

Thanks for the welcome!

Like I said, I have spent a few years doing studies with local JWs (one was the C.O.). The normal response for something like this would be..."well, thats not the way we interpret it."

I found this to be a lame cop-out, but like you said, JWs can only see scripture through the shades of "God's only true channel of worship."

31

Watchtower's Jesus = Michael doctrine

by Ding in

i've never really understood the watchtower's teaching on jesus being michael.

here is what i understand they teach:.

1. jehovah's first creation was the archangel michael.. 2. jesus was nothing more than a perfect man, not michael the archangel in human form.. 3. rather, when jesus was conceived in mary, michael went out of existence and his impersonal life force was put into jesus (analogous to sharing the same pacemaker).. 4. when jesus died, his impersonal life force went back into a recreated archangel michael.. .

witness2witness

Hello all. I am a new poster on here (although I have been lurking for a long time). I have never been one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, however, have spent a lot of time over the past few years with JWs, and have a deep empathy for struggles that they go through in this cult. I am currently attending Seminary, and love theology! I thought I would weigh in on the issue of Michael/Jesus (as the “bible study” I did a few years back taught me about this subject).

There is no biblical evidence to infer that Jesus is or was an angel. There are two passages that I go to when engaging with my Witness friends to prove this.

The first, and strongest, argument against Jesus being connected (ontologically) to the angels is in the first chapter of Hebrews (actually, it’s the entire first chapter). The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish-Christians who had fallen away from the standard teachings of grace/faith, and had begun introducing many former Jewish practices into their belief system. The entire book is a rebuttal to these erroneous practices (especially in the area of Christ as the high priest, versus needed an earthly priest, as that local congregation had not grasped the value of Christ as priest).

Regarding chapter 1: being that there were many instances in Jewish history where an angel had been involved in helping the Hebrews (or by giving supernatural help), Jews had often elevated angels to a superior level of exaltation. However, the purpose of the angel was to be God’s ministering spirit (Heb. 1:14). The author of Hebrews is making the point that Jesus was not an angel, and is in fact, far superior to the angels.

Hebrews 1 (ESV)

1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son,

today I have begotten you”?

Or again,

“I will be to him a father,

and he shall be to me a son”?

6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

7 Of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels winds,

and his ministers a flame of fire.”

8 But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,

the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;

therefore God, your God, has anointed you

with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

10 And,

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,

and the heavens are the work of your hands;

11 they will perish, but you remain;

they will all wear out like a garment,

12 like a robe you will roll them up,

like a garment they will be changed.

But you are the same,

and your years will have no end.”

13 And to which of the angels has he ever said,

“Sit at my right hand

until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

The author of Hebrews is almost stating his case to the point of redundancy, that Jesus is in NO WAY an angel.

The second scripture I would go to is in the book of Daniel. The Watchtower in chapter 12, teaches:

“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people.” The response is usually: “You see, Michael is the great prince! He is Jesus.”

However, if we look at Daniel 10:13 (in context), we know that the author already established who Michael is:

“…but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia…”

If Jesus is Michael, and Michael is only “one of the chief princes,” then Jesus has others who he shares the title of “chief prince” with. Obviously, this teaching is not consistent with Watchtower theology (and is complete heresy to Orthodox Christianity).

There is a little more to this, but I think this is a strong and basic argument against this false teaching.

17

WELCOME to all our new friends @ JWN !

by wobble in

jw
friends

hi and big welcome to all the new ones posting on here !.

it is really great to have you with us, and i hope you all find time to tell us your story, particularly the one thing that really "woke you up".. please feel free to ask for help, support and friendship here, that is why the site is such a success and so important, it offers those things and more.. love to you all,.

wobble.

witness2witness

Hello all,

I have been lurking here for a while now (probably over a year) and have been very blessed by the insight and sharing that everyone engages in. I have never been a JW, but do have a strong heart for them. I guess I would be considered an Evangelical, and have spent the past few years engaged with a number of local Witnesses, including one overseer, on a regular basis. It has been a pretty heartbreaking road, as I have been "blacklisted" from the discussions that have taken place with those members of the local congregation (we would meet for roughly 2-3 hours a week). For those of you who have become Christians, I would ask for your prayers for these beautiful (and lost) people.

Thanks, and I look forward to more discussions on this board!

W2W