Posts by jws

13

Do you think the Watchtower, will start calling the internet SATANIC ???

by run dont walk in

jw
friends

answering one of minimus questions, got me thinking, the watchtower must hate the internet, all this info and experiences from all over the world at your fingertips, it's almost like the watchtower had a communist rule over their followers, only telling them what they wanted.. then >>>>>>>>>>.

the internet, .

do you think the watchtower will say, a true jehovah's witness would have no use for such an "apostate" device..

jws

If they called the internet satanic, they'd have to explain why they continue to maintain a website on it.

I think the TV analogy is a good one. They strongly campaign against certain types of TV shows and movies, but don't ban them altogether. Every good JW knows what he can and cannot watch.

My 77 year old father uses it. He's pretty loyal and his wife is a blind follower who lets the WT do all her thinking for her. They both use the internet for e-mail, but even that's difficult for them. I don't think they go surfing at all. Partially because they aren't that internet saavy. But I think to some extent they're afraid of it. They're afraid of running across some apostate website and inviting satan into their home. I think that's one reason they don't try too hard to learn how to surf websites. And I know my dad would love it if he could. Like me, all the information out there would delight him. Websites about ships, museums, etc.

52

All hell has broke loose

by Yesterdays Child in

jw
friends

when i got home from work last night my son was there and i was suprise to see him because it was meeting night and everyone else was gone.

then his mother comes in hmmmmmm "did your son tell you what he has done?

" nope well he has been having sex with his girlfriend the baptized pioneer elders daughter yikes my son (not baptized) and her were girlfriend and boyfriend untill her daddy stop them from seeing each other.

jws

I would take him aside and tell him if he loved this girl, if she is in his heart, to do the honorable thing and step up and take her for his own. The emotional bond that takes place when we give it with love is here for a reason too. I believe we are meant to have only one mate forever. I know, I've had far more than my share. None, though they were exciting and had us zooming around the moon, were like the first. The first was clean and pure and sweet, the stuff of which life is made.

On the one hand, I think you have something. My first, we were both virgins and it was a special sort of intimacy. There was a bond in the figuring it all out together, exploring each other. And if you keep it to that, there's a sort of innocence. We broke up because of our long-distance relationship, but if we ended up married, I sort of doubt that bond alone could have kept the relationship going. Hell, it didn't overcome the distance gap and there's a lot more involved in marriage. There's a lot more involved in a relationship than the fact that you were each other's first. I think the evidence shows so many kids marrying their high-school sweethearts (and presumably their first sexual partners), and end up divorced in a few years. Sex is often mistaken for love. And for virgins, this is even moreso.

For a good relationship, the people have to be compatible and going in the same directions. How many people are the same person they were, with the same views and goals as they were when they got out of high school? I'm certainly not. I've probably been about the same from age 25. But I did a lot of growing up and finding myself from age 18 to 25. Part of that was dating several people and learning to find and pursue the compatible girls, not just the ones that I could have sex with. If I had gotten married to the girl I lost it to, I'd probably be miserable today. So, I'd recommend waiting until he's at least out of college and to date several girls in the meantime. Living with one or two may not be a bad idea either. It's a great lesson for learning to adapt to the opposite sex in everyday life, from sharing a sink to just learning how to deal with somebody else at home all the time. And waiting usually puts you in a better financial position to pay bills and enjoy your marriage. Not spend the first few critical years, struggling to survive.

The whole JW thing was, in my experience, an extremely poor way of getting to know anyone enough to find a compatible mate. Your experiences may vary from mine. Being obligated to find a JW girl, where's the first place you look? Your Hall. Ok, there's about 6-10 single girls my age (actually pretty high compared to other Halls with 1 or 2 girls) and most were OK looking (though my superficial younger self had higher goals). Of course, those girls also had to have an interest in you. If it didn't work with those girls, there's always circuit and district assemblies. Now you find a girl, talk to her for a little bit to see if there's any interest, then try to schedule more time with her. Generally, that time was under the watchful eye of a chaperone, where nobody is going to be themselves. It's bad enough on one-on-one dates that each one is so busy trying to be on best behavior, they don't act themselves. With chaperones, it's nearly impossible. Where I was, once you even started this dating process, it was considered serious. I've had fathers on the first date ask what my intentions were. It was as if that first step, asking somebody out, was a road to marriage. Whereas the worldly kids would date casually. You'd spend some time with several girls to get to know them better. But that was not proper. Dating was serious and a road to marriage, not to try a bunch to see who you like best. And of course, no sex as a JW. What guy isn't a bundle of raging hormones? The only way to "get some" is to get married. So, it seemed, you'd marry the first girl you sort of got along with and had this sort of "puppy love" affection for based on seeing each other on your best behavior. Neither really knows the other until they get married and out on their own. Then they discover that one is a slob and drives the other nuts. Or that the guy leaves the toilet seat up. Or they squeeze the tube from the bottom.

In my opinion, you should have several partners, live with a few, wait until you're older, and find somebody who's also a good friend. And live with him/her before getting married too.

35

My Becoming a JW

by Juliana in

jw
friends

i was raised non-religious.

i don't call myself an atheist as such because i don't like to label anyone, but i don't actually believe in god (though i am christian in background, and several branches of family family are roman catholic).

my fiance knows this.

jws

If Juliana is still listening, I'd like to add more.

When I got married, I ended up with some great in-laws who like me and welcomed me to their family.

IF this guy has JW parents and you do not choose to become a JW, they may or may not accept you. Even if they accept you, you will be like the step-child - never really part of the family. They may talk to you, but there'll always be that invisible dividing line. On the other hand, if you actually become a JW and stop, it's a whole different set of rules. From then on, you're shunned. They may say "hi" to you, but that might be about it. The only time they may talk to you afterwards is if there is some family crisis.

Of course, each family is different, and some may not hold to these cruel behaviors as much as others.

Just more to think about before getting involved...

35

My Becoming a JW

by Juliana in

jw
friends

i was raised non-religious.

i don't call myself an atheist as such because i don't like to label anyone, but i don't actually believe in god (though i am christian in background, and several branches of family family are roman catholic).

my fiance knows this.

jws

As you've said, you don't believe in God (or at least have strong doubts) and not much religious training. Beware because Jehovah's Witnesses will make it appear like they have it all figured out. They have an answer for everything. To somebody who doesn't know the bible, this can be amazing, but don't be taken in by it. There is enough published on the web to show flaws with their beliefs. They are merely a man-made religion that came up with their own thoughts about what is and isn't the "truth" and nothing but a handful of men gets to have any say over that. The rest are expected to align their thinking with the beliefs of these men. And even their beliefs change over time. People in the religion 100 years ago would get kicked out for what they believed if they were alive today. Don't ever be tricked into following their version of the "truth".

The part about them having answers for everything is also part of the traps. They often set guidelines on everything in life. The length of your hair, type of makeup, career path, style of dress, hobbies, even the intimacies of the private sex life between you and your husband. Sometimes they may word it like you have some lattitude, but in reality, the JW culture does not see the lattitude. It's either black or white to them. If they say that something is a matter of conscience, but a "mature Christian" wouldn't want to do it, you'd better not get caught doing it.

And there are other ways to control your life. You will be expected to attend a 2 hour service on Sundays, a 2 hour and a 1 hour service on two weeknights, and be expected to go out knocking on doors for at least 2 hours a week. Otherwise, expect people to show up and start "encouraging" you to do so. And beyond that, you are encouraged to study their materials before these services, requiring additional time. There are also activities you will be expected to be involved in too. One is the Ministry School, where you will be required to write material and and present it to an audience. There's also volunteering, like for cleaning their church. There's plenty to keep you busy. I didn't realize how much time there was in a week until I left.

Like others have said, if this guy is in love with you and wants to marry you, he has already broken the rules. I was there in his place. I dated wordly girls (their private term for non-JWs like you). Always, in the back of my mind was the hope that if I fell in love with one, I could get her to convert to being a JW. Part of that was the JW "man-in-charge" type thinking that I could force my wife to do whatever I said and she would listen because I was the man. He wants you to become a JW so he can save face and make it all OK. Find out whether he really loves you. Has he told his friends about you? Has he told his family? Or are you a secret he keeps on the side? Only when you become a JW, will he reveal your relationship. That doesn't sound too loving. I did that and did not realize how much I was hurting the girl, but I also knew how much I would hurt my dad by revealing I was dating a worldly girl.

He's supposed to marry another JW. This is probably a guy who didn't like the "selection" of girls in his church. Or maybe he's a little bit of a rebel and they didn't like him. So he starts looking on the outside. You are not where he preferred to look, but now he's met you anyway and fallen for you. Now you must become what he wanted in the first place. What does that say about what he thinks of you?

Take the fact that he's willing to bend the rules and bring him to this site or other JW sites on the web. Instead of him converting you, pull him out. Save him. Maybe you can both end up happy, but it won't happen if one or both of you are Witnesses.

9

Corollary to Minimus Meeting Poll: How Many of You ENJOYED Them?

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

as i think back over nearly a half century of going to meetings that i can count on one hand the number of meetings that i could label as inspirational or in the least bit exhilirating.

i think many if not most jws regard meeting attendance as a duty, or test of their perseverance, a sort of installment pre-payment on their idyllic post-armageddeon homesite,.

was there ever a point in your life that you enjoywed and looked forward to going to the meetings?

jws

I enjoyed going to meetings to see friends, but usually not for the talks.

I did enjoy them sometimes. Every once in a while, a speaker was gifted and got you interested from beginning to end. But that was rare - oh so rare. I can probably count those on one hand.

Other times I enjoyed it because it would deviate from the norm. I remember a circuit or district overseer bringing in a slideshow of a trip to some ancient lands. I really enjoyed seeing the pictures from these places, so I did enjoy some.

For the most part, it was so boring. I became an expert daydreamer. In fact, I think the JWs caused this trait. All through grade school, I did well, but the teachers always commented on my daydreaming in my report cards. During summer, when the drapes were open at the Hall and I could see trees, I'd watch them blow back and forth, dreaming I was out playing among trees. Or sometimes I could see a bird and watch them. There was a painting on the wall, I'd imagine being in that scenery. I'd try drawing (until my parents gave me dirty looks). I'd rehash the day's events and think about what I was going to do tomorrow. In short, ANYTHING, but concentrate on those boring talks. Not only boring, but repetative. Teach me something I don't know already!

15

Can you predict events ahead of time?

by JH in

jw
friends

.

did you ever predict events ahead of time, like a dream or a vision that something would happen, and it did?

explain .

jws

I don't believe I have any special powers, but I've sure had some strange coincidences. I've dreamed about people that I haven't seen or talked to in a while and they'll call or I'll see them shortly afterward. Then again, sometimes that happens and I never do see the person.

The wierdest one happened in a dream one night. I was in Dallas. I was dreaming I was in some huge skyscraper looking north. It was like I was up so high I could see the earth's curvature and see for several hundred miles. And I'm watching as this giant fireball like a sun is bouncing around at the edge of the horizon to the north like a beachball - and I'm worried it will bounce my way and knock the building I'm in out from under me, but it stays north. I never remember having any other dreams with such an object and have had none that I can remember since. The same goes for the "high above the earth" perspective. The next morning was the Okahoma City bombing. Looking several hundred miles north (mostly north) from Dallas is Oklahoma City. And an explosion and a fiery ball are sort of comparable. I can't explain the bouncing-ball effect. The uniqueness of never having this sort of dream before and the timing of it sorta spooked me.

Is some supernatural power implanting images into my dreams? But for what purpose? These things aren't specific enough to move me to action. Let's say the Oklahoma thing was a warning. That supernatural power should have known I'm not the type to run to the news media or call authorities just because I had a freaky dream. And besides, what did it tell me? Something north of me was going to be a fireball? OK, maybe Oklahoma? Well isn't that REAL specific? Now I know exactly who to warn. Go to terror alert level red now! Or is it just the knowledge that "something else" is out there that is aware of the future? Of course, hindsight is always 20-20. It's a lot easier to make a connection afterwards.

How come a premonition from a dream about mass destruction comes true, but that dream about the harem never does?

27

Did you ever win anything?

by JH in

jw
friends

have you ever won anything in your life?

i didn't, but indirectly i did.

back in 1982 my mother won a brand new honda civic.

jws

I won a giant stuffed Big Bird in a raffle and I didn't even have kids. They used the same pool of raffle tickets for all prizes. I didn't even have kids then. I also won (after kids) an on-the-go baby-care kit and a carseat, both in raffles and both very timely and helpful. Won a Def Lepard cassette on the radio, T-shirts from bars, and once got a letter saying I may have already won millions.

37

Do you have a sense of humor?

by Maverick in

jw
friends

in the movie 'my blue heaven' steve martin's charactor claims, "everyone thinks they have a sense of humor, even when they don't!

" do you laugh easily and often?

i am always looking for new material and have about 150 jokes at my disposal.

jws

I think there's a difference between a sense of humor and being funny. I love and appreciate a wide variety of humor and don't take myself too seriously. I think I can have my moments where the right comment can have my friends snorting with laughter. But I'm no stand-up comedian and I'm not considered the clown.

52

All hell has broke loose

by Yesterdays Child in

jw
friends

when i got home from work last night my son was there and i was suprise to see him because it was meeting night and everyone else was gone.

then his mother comes in hmmmmmm "did your son tell you what he has done?

" nope well he has been having sex with his girlfriend the baptized pioneer elders daughter yikes my son (not baptized) and her were girlfriend and boyfriend untill her daddy stop them from seeing each other.

jws

Well he has been having sex with his girlfriend the baptized pioneer elders daughter

Probably doesn't matter, but I'm a little confused. Is the girl a baptised pioneer who has an elder for a father? Or is she not a pioneer? Her father's both a pioneer and an elder? Who's the pioneer? And also wondering, are you an ex-JW? Or were you never one?

If she's the pioneer, wow! I always thought of them as being the most brainwashed robots they had. Real holier-than-thou types. For her to date an non-baptised guy is surprising, and even more so to let it get as far as having sex.

Back in the congregation I was in until my mid-teens, we had a guy who did *something* to an elder's daughter - probably a lot of horizontal grinding with the clothes on (according to the "needs" talk afterwards). He got DFed, she got reproof. He turned out having a pretty moral life, she stayed a JW, married some dork (probably under threat) and ended up cheating on him. She even approached this DFed guy and tried to have sex with him, but he (though single) turned her down because she was married. Leaves me wondering who was the aggressor in the original incident.

While her father may not be happy with her, he may use his elder status to protect her from being DFed. Your son, on the other hand, not being baptised can't be DFed. I forget what they can do to him. I think there's a form of "shunning" that's not the same type of shunning as being DFed. As I remember it, people might decide he's "bad association" and may say hi to him, but stay away socially. As for her (assuming she is the pioneer one), she's going to fall a lot harder. Even if she gets off light, she's going to have to stop pioneering. That's a status symbol for JWs and having it taken away hurts.

Like others, I'm glad they didn't get married just to find out what sex is like. Straight out of high school is way too young for that. Hopefully your son's trouble will cause a seperation between him and the borg and he can free himself. Hopefully, she can too.

52

What was the "final straw" that made you leave the JW's ??????

by run dont walk in

jw
friends

what happened or was said, that made you decide, enough is enough, i am out of here ?????

?

jws

In my late teens, I started getting fed up with certain things and just refused to believe others. For instance, if they came out with one more "greater <insert name here> class" or "greater fulfillment" or "modern fulfillment" to suit whatever they were trying to glorify themselves with this week, I was going to vomit. Other things, I just didn't believe (some of which changed in my favor in the form of "new light"). But, still I believed I was in the best religion.

At one point, my brother and I were the congregation rebels, drinking, rock music, wordly association, dating worldly girls, etc. And we weren't alone in the congregation - there were others we did this stuff with. But they never could pin anything on us to DF us. Eventually, some of the others "repented", but we stuck to our guns and denied everything, even saving some of their butts by not tattling on others. But, people "knew" about us and took it upon themselves to stay clear - even those who we were partying with. After that, no matter what we did, we could never seem to earn favor back. So, it wasn't exactly a happy climate. Some were nice and we had our worldly friends to keep us company, so we survived.

Never really liked all the committment. 3 meetings a week and field service. Never liked field service. So, in my early 20's I moved out of state. It only lasted about 5 or 6 weeks (bad roommates) and I moved back. So, I never settled in out of state to a cong. When I came back, I took 2 available jobs, both 2nd shift - one mon-fri, the other saturdays. I also now lived across town. So I had to miss meetings on weeknights and didn't get home until about 3am on Sunday morning, so waking up for Sunday meeting wasn't easy. Didn't feel comfortable with a new congregation, so travelling across town to the old one was an extra effort. So, I got lazy and irregular.

Eventually, I met a girl who had me watch a religious program on JWs. I found out how to order Ray Franz's book and read it. It opened my eyes, and though inactive, decided not to return. In a way, I envy people who worked it all out and left while they were still regular. I was lazy and irregular as it was. I know I'm in the right, but in the back of my mind, a small voice says it was just a justification for me being lazy - or at least that my JW family might perceive it as such. As if I was weak and that's why I got "snared by Satan". I wish I could have found Franz's book when I was still a good JW. I was interested in it for several years - (as soon as I heard about him leaving I wanted to know the story), but didn't know how or where to obtain it. I know I would have read it and I know it would have led me to where I am now.