Posts by muzzy

19

Can you say plagiarism?

by Mebaqqer2 in

so i ran across this statement today in doing some research:.

take, for instance, the stories and legends regarding the origin of man.

although details vary, the belief that man was made from the dust of the earth is widespread.

muzzy

@MrMonroe:

I'm not familiar with the Gandhi quote -- for those of us who haven't heard, can you fill us in?

39

Have you made MAJOR CHANGES since you started posting here?

by nicolaou in

i ask because i've been posting at jwd/jwn for 10 years now.

i was a rapidly fading jw when i started but still considered myself a christian for a good few years more.

now i've embraced reason and rejected faith i'm a very happy atheist and enjoy learning more about the fact of evolution.. what about you?.

muzzy

Big changes, but it took a long time. My DFing feels like forever ago.

Since I got outed from the WT, I have:

-- Converted to Judaism

-- Discovered Spinoza

-- Re-converted back to agnosticism and reason

-- Earned a Master's degree

-- Gotten legally married (in five states and DC) to a fabulous man

-- Forgiven the three old men who DF'd me

-- Reunited by once-broken JW family

-- Told my Dad (who is still an elder) that he's my hero and I love him no matter what he believes

-- Gave my Dad a new lease on life

-- Lived in Spain

-- and written a historical novel about Rutherford and his wives (coming soon!)

So yeah, I guess you could say some things have changed.

3

Looking for Rutherford Interview

by muzzy in

calling all research geeks, please help if you can.. .

in doing some research on joseph rutherford, a couple weeks ago i came across an interview he gave to a missouri newspaper talking about his upcoming theocratic convention in st. louis in august 1941. the newspaper may have been the globe-democrat.

i remember it had a black-and-white portrait photo of rutherford, and the caption said 'this is their leader.

muzzy

Calling all research geeks, please help if you can.

In doing some research on Joseph Rutherford, a couple weeks ago I came across an interview he gave to a Missouri newspaper talking about his upcoming Theocratic Convention in St. Louis in August 1941. The newspaper may have been the Globe-Democrat. I remember it had a black-and-white portrait photo of Rutherford, and the caption said 'This is their leader.' I read this interview in pdf format on the internet, and I suspect I may have found it on jwfacts.com.

Unfortunately, I failed to save the location, and now I can't find it. Do you have it, or know where I can find it?

Any help you can offer I would greatly appreciate. Thank you so much!

8

Who first applied Daniel 9 to the Christian's Jesus?

by Doug Mason in

i am seeking information, not an exegesis or an eisegesis.. .

"somewhere", i came across a statement identifying the person/group that first interpreted the 70 "sevens" of daniel 9 as identifying the year of jesus' appearance as the "messiah".. .

try as i might, i cannot relocate that information, so i am hoping someone can point me to authoritative sources that identify the person/group who first provided that interpretation, and hopefully the contemporary context.. .

muzzy

Hi Leolaia,

I've been trying to contact you. Did you get my PM ?

54

To DF'd people: have you gotten your yearly visit? Ever?

by daringhart13 in

jw
friends

i'm really curious how many of those df'd have ever received a yearly visit........ .

muzzy

I was DF'd in '98. I'm about sure they all forgot about me, at least the ones still alive. Recently I learned that one brother on my tribunal killed himself. And then more recently, another elder who DF'd me had his son (a Ministerial Servant) commit suicide. The third, still-surviving one was the craziest of them all and was certainly happy to get this gay boy out of his kingdom hall, especially after I called him a Nimrod.

Then I moved away.

So no, I don't expect a visit anytime soon. Though los testigos del congregacion espagnol do wander by occassionally, and I wish they'd stop at my house.

7

I used to accept this although never quite getting it--now I just don;t get it

by booby in

*** w09 2/15 p. 24 par.

3 they "keep following the lamb" ***.

3 jesus has appointed the faithful and discreet slave "over his domestics," that is, the individual members of the slave class, "to give them their food at the proper time.

muzzy

@ Blondie:

Good question. It's interesting to note that neither Jesus nor the Gospel writer identify the 'faithful and discreet slave.' In fact, it seems the slave's identity isn't really an issue. Most of Matthew 24 is a series of parables, of which the 'faithful and discreet slave' is just one. And all of them have this in common: each parable emphasizes the fact that no one knows exactly when these things will come to pass, not even the Son himself, but only God alone knows when the end will come. So as far as the 'faithful and discreet slave' parable is concerned, this is simply a warning to Jesus' followers to keep busy and do what they know to do, because they never know when their master is coming.

As for what early Christians believed, many of them witnessed the siege and destruction of Jerusalem, so they probably interpreted these scriptures in light of that historical event. I find it really hard to believe that many Jewish Christians thought Jesus referred to anything more than the loss of the Temple at Jerusalem.

It's also helpful to compare this episode to its parallel account in Luke 12 (which the WT rarely compares, let alone quotes). There, Peter asks Jesus, "Lord, are you saying this illustration to us or also to all?" Jesus replies with the parable of the 'faithful steward, the discreet one.' Notice that Jesus answers a question with a question. It would be quite a stretch to claim that Jesus was identifying Peter (or any of the apostles) as his chosen steward. Rather, look at verse 48. In a long answer to Peter's short question, Jesus seems to indicate (in so many words) that his illustrations are for all people, though he allows that some will understand more than others. Those who understand more have more responsibility that those who understand less. End of story.

And that's about it. Pretty simple, really. No sacred secrets here, no unfinished mysteries, no lawyer-presidents, and certainly no corporations in New York.

8

Request for answers

by muzzy in

my name is michael and i'm doing some research on rutherford and the early wts.

ok, full disclosure: i'm writing a novel, and the subject is rutherford.. back when several posters like leoleia and farkel were posting stuff about rutherford's private life and travels, many people commented that this would make a really great book.

so i'm takin them up on their suggestion.

muzzy

Thanks Black Sheep. Unfortunately the link you posted leads to a download site, behind a paywall. I'd rather not have to pay to sign up.

Any way you could attach to an email and send to me?

1

Does anyone have the transcript for the "Millions" talk?

by maninthemiddle in

jw
friends

or is it close enough to just read the book.. .

muzzy

Maninthmiddle,

If you manage to get a hold of a copy, please let me know. While we're at it, I'd also love to see a program from either the 1938 Madison Square Garden convention or the 1939 St. Louis convention.

8

Request for answers

by muzzy in

my name is michael and i'm doing some research on rutherford and the early wts.

ok, full disclosure: i'm writing a novel, and the subject is rutherford.. back when several posters like leoleia and farkel were posting stuff about rutherford's private life and travels, many people commented that this would make a really great book.

so i'm takin them up on their suggestion.

muzzy

@designs -- Any chance you can help with an address or google map?

@ynot -- good suggestions. I will have to look up the Missouri Bar.

@zidina -- I assume the it was more a sort of WWII bunker, and only came to resemble a 'bomb shelter' after the war. Your idea about contacting local clergy isn't too crazy. What's this about personal message? Is that a function on this discussion board? I don't see a link anywhere.

8

Request for answers

by muzzy in

my name is michael and i'm doing some research on rutherford and the early wts.

ok, full disclosure: i'm writing a novel, and the subject is rutherford.. back when several posters like leoleia and farkel were posting stuff about rutherford's private life and travels, many people commented that this would make a really great book.

so i'm takin them up on their suggestion.

muzzy

Hi, can you help me? My name is Michael and I'm doing some research on Rutherford and the early WTS.

OK, full disclosure: I'm writing a novel, and the subject is Rutherford.

Back when several posters like Leoleia and Farkel were posting stuff about Rutherford's private life and travels, many people commented that this would make a really great book. So I'm takin them up on their suggestion. But I need your help.

I've read a lot of the reseach posted on these forums, and it has all been very informative, but there's still a few more things I'd like to know. If you have answers to any of the following questions, could you post a response here, or let me know where I can find the answer?

Questions:

1. Rutherford's Education -- Where did Rutherford go to law school? I found an early photo of him with a caption or news clipping that named a school for steongraphy and shorthand, but is that all there was? Did he have no further education? Or was his story about paying his father to replace his farm labor a made-up lie? Just before the St. Louis convention in '39, he gave his last interview in which he told a very different story.

2. Convention Programs -- Speaking of the spirit of '39, can anyone help me find a program from that convention? What about the list of speakers and topics at Madison Square Garden (June 25 & 26, 1938 I think it was)? Moyle must have spoken that fateful day at the Garden, as he was on the speakers platform -- right?

3. Beth Shan -- Anyone know the exact address of Beth Shan? (Not Beth Sarim, that one's easy to find. I mean the second, larger one across the canyon). I live in San Diego and have driven all around Talmadge looking for it, but none of those houses is nearly big enough. Google maps are appreciated!

4. Knorr's Succession -- Why did Rutherford choose Nathan Knorr as his VP and successor, and not William Heath? Heath was a trusted friend, board member, and close confidant of Rutherford. Was there anything in particular 'wrong' about Heath?

5. The Boyd-Heath Marriage -- If Bonnie Boyd was Rutherford's mistress, why did he let her marry William Heath? Did she perhaps negotiate a secret deal to get herself married off to the Coca-Cola heir? Or did she have the goods on Rutherford and use that information to blackmail him into letting her marry?

6. Boyd-Heath, cont. -- Any record or evidence that either Bonnie or William Heath continued as active Witnesses after the death (and fabulous spy-burial) of Rutherford? If they kept living at Beth Shan, did they still attend a congregation in San Diego? Or did they run off and hide in the Bahamas?

7. The Moyle Trial -- Any trial lawyers out there? Could you tell me what you think of the Moyle trial transcript, esp. as it descripes the two attorneys? How did the consels perform? Hayden Covington's arguments and demands are hillarious, and the judge keeps getting frustrated with him. Was he just totally incompetent? Is this the same guy who won all those 1st Amendment cases before SCOTUS?

8. Photo Drama -- Any photos of William Pratt Heath, Jr.? Photos of Olin R. Moyle?

You don't have to be Leoleia to contribute. If you or anyone you know have any clues, please share with all of us. I promise to be very generous and include everyone in my acknowledgments.

Thank you!