Thank you both of you,
jwsons
jwsons
JoinedPosts by jwsons
-
3
Anybody know somewhere has Carl Oslof...?
by jwsons indear everyone,.
i hope one of you can help me to know the story about carl oslof jonsson.
how wts treated him etc... his webpage says nothing about his life-story.
-
-
-
3
Anybody know somewhere has Carl Oslof...?
by jwsons indear everyone,.
i hope one of you can help me to know the story about carl oslof jonsson.
how wts treated him etc... his webpage says nothing about his life-story.
-
-
jwsons
Dear everyone,
I hope one of you can help me to know the story about Carl Oslof Jonsson. How WTS treated him etc... His webpage says nothing about his life-story. I need something like J Penton profile or Ray Franz Profile.
Thx,
jwsons
-
12
Does anyone have 11/15/02 WT?
by Mulan inone of my friends asked me to see if i could find out what it says on page 9 of the november 15, 2002 wt.
if anyone has it, will you please post what it says?.
my friend says someone keeps asking her if she has read it, and they don't get a sub.
-
-
jwsons
Mulan,
I suppose your friend wants to send you a message "If you're out of the Society, how can you 'One another' ?" for the title of that study article is "Christian Need One Another" and the scripture quoted Ephesian 4:25.
That's what I guess.
Off course, we are still one another over here in "Overbeer." Yeh?
jwsons
Edited by - jwsons on 14 October 2002 12:8:55
-
47
What "Two Witness" Rule?
by Amazing insomeone please show me where the watchtower society has stated, in cases of serious sin, the rule that requires "two witnesse" to the event or act!
at best, one or two witnesses are preferred!
period ... but if there are no witnesses, then other evidence can be presented to witnesses or the elders.
-
-
jwsons
Look again in Pay Attention to Yourself...
AND here:
*** w97 8/15 27-8 Why Report What Is Bad? *** At least two witnesses are required to establish a charge of wrongdoing. (John 8:17; Hebrews 10:28) If the person denies the charge and your testimony is the only one, the matter will be left in Jehovahs hands. (1 Timothy 5:19, 24, 25) This is done in the knowledge that all things are openly exposed to Jehovah and that if the person is guilty, eventually his sins will catch up with him.Hebrews ; Numbers 32:23.
But suppose the person does deny the charge and you are the only witness against him. Could you now be open to a countercharge of slander? No, not unless you have gossiped to those not involved in the matter. It is not slanderous to report conditions affecting a congregation to those having authority and responsibility to oversee and correct matters. It is, in fact, in line with our desire always to do what is correct and loyal.Compare Luke 1:74, 75
*** w77 10/1 607 Questions from Readers ***My unbelieving husband admitted to me that he has another woman. Is his admission sufficient ground for a Scriptural divorce?
In some cases if a Christians unbelieving mate admits to committing immorality, that would provide a Scriptural basis for a divorce, which, in turn, would free the innocent Christian for remarriage if desired.
Jehovah Gods law to the ancient nation of made provision for divorce on various grounds. (Deut. 24:1, 2) Adultery, homosexuality and bestiality were bases for ending a marriage; the guilty person was to be executed. (Deut. 22:22-24; Lev. 18:22, 23) However, the Law set forth this important requirement: At the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one dying should be put to death. He will not be put to death at the mouth of one witness. (Deut. 17:6; ; Num. 35:30) Being a lover of righteousness and justice, Jehovah required that such matters be determined on the basis of proof, of witnesses, not merely suspicion. (Ps. 33:5) This, of course, was stated as regards applying the death penalty, not as regards a divorce action.
jwsons
Edited by - jwsons on 14 October 2002 3:48:38
-
29
What does this scripture mean to you?
by Valis ini brought this up during the beginnings of the flame war we just encountered and it got overlooked.
for all of you who follow the bible/or not.
luke 9.
-
-
jwsons
I thought it's very weak for WTBTS eplained about a central structure of Gov. Body, for at first, they couldn't explain the incident when Jesus'disciples went out for preaching and come back to report something like the scriptures you quoted. Then they attempted to explain that "Yes, when Jesus still on earth, they may not have a central structure," for if they had, why Jesus accept others not within the group of 70 or closed disciples. WTBTS said , "however, when Jesus poured holy spirit at Pentecost onward, they should have a central structure." But, you can see latter on, when Peter and Paul going around, they still find some preaching about the salvation from Jesus without holy spirit, and Paul or Peter (even John) accepted those ones, laid hand to help them receive holy spirit. There is no central structure of Gov Body at all. They surround by local congrs. instead.
That's my opinion.
jwsons
Edited by - jwsons on 12 October 2002 15:53:13
-
30
Hey Aussies, Is Peter Brock a Dub?
by Mackin ini just saw on the 6.00 o'clock news that peter brock is racing in bathurst this weekend.
i had heard ages ago that he had become a dub.
surely the wts would 'tut 'tut at him engaging in such a "dangerous worldly activity" as motor racing?
-
-
jwsons
Hey OZ,
Do yah know who behinds this following webpage ?
http://www.cvxmck.edu.au/intranet/private/contents/jws/jwch2.htm
jwsons
Edited by - jwsons on 11 October 2002 23:9:25
-
50
Update from Ray Franz
by Amazing inlast night, after my post regarding ray franz comments of bill bowen's posted statements, i received a good number of email and phone calls.
one item consistently surfaced regarding ray's assignment to write the chapter in the book, organization for kingdom preaching and disciple-making, by the title of safeguarding the cleanness of the congregation.
in the chapter, the "two witness" rule was outlined.
-
-
jwsons
quote from Crisis of Conscience (3rd edition,page130):
"By now,Ewart Chitty was no longer a member of the Body,having submitted his resignation in accord with the Governing Body's wishes."
Why ? Find more at the ending of this following link:
http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:LL-QqffUakgC:www.angelfire.com/home/dkmcoc/coc/cocchapter6.html+cocchapter6.html+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
jwsons
-
50
Update from Ray Franz
by Amazing inlast night, after my post regarding ray franz comments of bill bowen's posted statements, i received a good number of email and phone calls.
one item consistently surfaced regarding ray's assignment to write the chapter in the book, organization for kingdom preaching and disciple-making, by the title of safeguarding the cleanness of the congregation.
in the chapter, the "two witness" rule was outlined.
-
-
jwsons
profile | register | active | rated | members | stats | search
Navigate directly to forum area...Child Abuse discuss the physical and emotional abuse of children within the WTS All Forums
Child Abuse
Bible vs JW 2-witness rule< Prev | Next >
Live Chat: eyegirl, Cowboy, ring, scootergirl & bittersweet Author Topic: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule Read 163 times Be the 1st to rate this thread Ray Vic Franz ????
Bible vs JW 2-witness rule Jun 8, 2002 01:00
Senior Member
United States of America
Posts: 93
Since: Jun 8, 2002 Advertisement
Excavating Jesus: Beneath the Stones, Behind the Texts
Crossan, John Dominic$29.95$9.95The Watchtower and its apologists keep insisting that the Bible gives them no choice but to insist on two witnesses to an act of molestation before they can do anything beyond filing a report with headquarters. There is very clear teaching in the Bible that the two-witness principle does not apply to this type of situation. Here's the text:
23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death-the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, 27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
Deuteronomy 22:23-27This is in the same book of the Bible as the two-witness principle. Let's focus on that second paragraph, 25-27. What's the situation? A woman is raped out in the country. There are no witnesses to the event. It is compared to another crime which rarely has witnesses, namely murder. Because there are no other witnesses, nobody who even could have seen it happen, or even have been close enough to hear if the woman had screamed for help, the man is to be put to death.
If the two-witness rule applied in such cases, that is, if two other witnesses besides the victim or even one other were required, it would not be possible to put the man to death for raping a woman when there are no witnesses. Contrary to the anti-biblical fantasies of the WBTS, it was not only possible, but mandatory under Old Testament law.
As Jesus said to another group of wilfully ignorant religious tyrants, so I say to the WBTS leadership: "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God."
Re: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule Jun 8, 2002 01:31
Emperor Class
United States of America
Posts: 2534
Since: Sep 5, 2001wow...good essay. Consider this in addition tho: does the Scriptures say "..witnesses to the ACT" or ..."witnesses to the MATTER"?
Maybe it's only me, but I see a big difference. And that's using the NWT Bible even yet.
BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.
Re: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule Jun 8, 2002 02:00
Jedi Member
Posts: 1095
Since: Jul 5, 2000welcome, robert. I agree with dungbeetle. Great essay. Intelligent thoughts. Here's another thought too. I've read phrases such as these: .."By his death, Christ 'released those under law." .... and.... "Chrsitians are not under the Mosiac law" over and over in wathtower literature. Yet, the watchtower will use the mosiac law scriptures to justify themselves further victimizing victims.
"Air baths are good for preventing colds.. What you do is strip naked mornings and evenings and then bob up and down for a while."~ Golden Age Feb 10 1926 31
Group air bath,anyone?
Re: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule Jun 8, 2002 08:33
Jedi Member
Posts: 1492
Since: May 28, 2001I concur, Robert_V_Frazier. Very good point! Re: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule Jun 8, 2002 10:01
Senior Member
United States of America
Posts: 93
Since: Jun 8, 2002To Somebody: Yep, it's definitely hypocritical to teach that as "Christians", the JW's are not under the O.T. law, yet invoke Deuteronomy every time the issue of child abuse comes up. Without a syllable about whether or to what extent O.T. law applies today.
But if they want to appeal to Moses, Moses will leave them twisting slowly in the wind!
To Dungbeetle and Blondie: Thanks for the kind words. I've been posting for a long time on the JW forum at CARM. Been lurking here quite a bit too. Glad to be here!
Re: Bible vs JW 2-witness rule Jun 8, 2002 14:11
Senior Member
Posts: 141
Since: Mar 25, 2002Welcome Robert....although you are not a JW, you most certainly bring salient points to the forum. Makes me think of how Jesus, as a youngster, because of his godly wisdom, gained favor in the eyes of God and 'men'. Fortunately the converse is true. People can spot unmitigated hypocrisy. Thanks for shining one more flashlight under their rock. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=29698&site=3
Edited by - jwsons on 11 October 2002 1:25:16
-
148
Comments from Ray Franz re Bill Bowen
by Amazing ini talked at length with ray franz this afternoon regarding the following comments by bill bowen: ray franz supports the wt policy on child abuse.
he is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation.
it is interesting that wt is willing to fight to the last man standing for a policy that in large part was founded by their biggest apostate.
-
-
jwsons
The 2 eye witnesses ? I thought someone already talked about it clearly : It's wrong
Should I say about the poster of this quote ? No, Just keep him like the way he wants. Sorry everyone
jwsons
Edited by - jwsons on 9 October 2002 20:12:45
-
21
CoC on Hold for Me
by out4good3 ingot a copy of crisis of conscious 2nd ed.
on hold for me at a library.
will most likely be picking it up tommorrow after i get off from work.
-
-
jwsons
Mostly agree with others. First read chapter "Double Standards" (about Malawi,Mexico)
Then "1975, The Appropriate for God to Act"
And if have enough time "Point od Decision" and then the rest.
His second book interesting too. I like the chapter about blood fractions (extract from Awake) of Ray's second book.
jwsons
