i just joined this site after researching the recent 'new light" my daughter is an unbaptized witness, as well as her husband and my grandchildren.
i was baptized in the 80s but i am inactive for years now because of changes and inconsintancies etc.. .
if the sheep and the goats teaching has been changed to happen after the great tribultaion, or after armageddon then this would mean that everyone would not be seperated or judged until after armageddon has occured.
@ Nathan Natas, JWN's editor has been acting quircky for me lately. When a link does not automatically paste into the JWN editor, highlight the URL address and either right-click and then select "Link/Edit", or highlight and click on the link button in the editor's menu bar. Also, I prefer to select display links in a new window instead of in the same window.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
i just joined this site after researching the recent 'new light" my daughter is an unbaptized witness, as well as her husband and my grandchildren.
i was baptized in the 80s but i am inactive for years now because of changes and inconsintancies etc.. .
if the sheep and the goats teaching has been changed to happen after the great tribultaion, or after armageddon then this would mean that everyone would not be seperated or judged until after armageddon has occured.
Verenda - She could not grasp the idea that if they are being directed by God there should be no misuderstandings. . . .
Anyway, I am not sure how to help her if she can even be helped. And where do we go when we figure out all the lies? I still believe in Jehovah and the basic teaching in the bible, so where do I go now? thanks
Welcome Verenda , I hope that you post often to vent your feelings and to ask more detailed questions about helping yourself and your JW family.
Damn ILoveTTATT for stealing my thunder. LOL Actually I wish that more JWN members would greet new members with what helped them and why, so that new members could heal emotionally more quickly.
If you want to help your daughter you must first help yourself heal emotionally. The good news is that your daughter and her husband are still unbaptized, have a child, and JWs are taught by the WTBTS to behave in predictable ways. The bad news is the WTBTS uses very powerful BITE control techniques to victimize JWs. The most important thing that you can do is do lots of research about the WTBTS and BITE control.
I recommend that you do the following first:
To help your JW family, I recommend that you do the following:
Best of wishes helping yourself and your JW family to critically think for themselves. It will be a frustrating and time-consuming effort, but it will be priceless for your JW family to live free of the WTBTS.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
just before i started undressing to take a shower to go to an appointment, the door bell rang.
i thought about not answering the door, but then thought what the hell it could be my neighbor, who is a widow and in her 70's, needing some help.. at the door was a frail man about 85+ years old dressed in a shabby sport coat, shirt, tie, and slacks, and a skinny woman about 75+ years old in a long dress that needed to be ironed.
as i grabbed my dog to prevent him from jumping at the screen door, which was partially open, and beating the couple with his tail and making them fall, i thought what am i going to do.
@ clarity, Don't take my word about how good Girl Scout thin mints taste frozen versus non-frozen. Try it!! Just be careful that the devil takes control of your will power and eat the whole box in one sitting. LOL
@ AudeSapere, I agree with you. You might try serving forzen thin mints to JWs to cause them more doubts. LOL
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
hi, i am completing a degree in psychology, while doing so a subject on social psychology has some interesting subjects on persuasion and change techniques.
so while not all circumstances are different doing so in this manner is the most efficient way:.
1. do not allow the argument to become heated, studies have showed that people tend to use less of the left side of the brain (left side is where all rational and logical cognitions take place, right hemisphere of the brain is all emotion).. 2. don't be a hypocrite, if they get angry and upset they subconsciently expect you to do the same to prove themselves that what they are doing is correct, speak calmly with a monotone voice and try to calm the other person down.. 3. build rapport, rapport can only come from genuine empathy so do not pretend or they will see right through you.
paranoia agent - ABibleStudent : Thanks but this thread was not really about those who are in who partially or fully disagree with the WB&T$
Hi paranoia agent, My comments about what causes a JW to remain in the WTBTS can also be the reasons that JWs feel cognitive dissonance, so they do apply to psychological coercion and to helping the cult persona to control the actions of a JW, whether a JW is fully in or partially in.
@ Londo111, I agree with you about Steve Hassan's ideas and methods and his credentials. You never know how a person will relate to different people/information, because everyone is unique. Also, I am amazed how some people (especially JWs) think digitally (i.e., black versus white) instead of analog. Those type of people may discredit Steve Hassan's works in favor of someone else instead of finding value in both people/information and customizing the information to their specific needs.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
so my sister is coming to stay this weekend.
although i'm sure she knows i'm not going to meetings, i don't know whether she realised i will not be going to any more meetings.
not looking forward to that time on sunday when i tell her she's going on her own.
Hi krejames, DITTO what other posters have said about planning something that your sister's authentic persona will enjoy on Sunday and the other days of the week. Just tell her that you wanted to spend time with her having fun.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
so these last few wts have definitely eroded my wife's faith in the org.
she is definitely seeing the bs, and i even overheard her talking openly about it to a family member.
good for her!.
Hi breakfast of champions, Have you asked your wife, 'What would cause her to lose faith in the leadership of the WTBTS?" and then ask "Why are you critisizing recent WTBTS doctrine changes?".
gingerbread brought up a good idea of how to confront your wife's platitudes that are taught to JWs by the WTBTS about serving in the military and going out in FS. How would your wife respond to you asking, "How would you respond to a non-JW asking you why are you wasting your life going out in field service, submitting time reports about FS, and shunning JWs who are willing to serve in the military?" Isn't it a matter of beliefs? How many non-JWs would support your wife's beliefs for reporting her FS time and shunning family members and friends for deciding to no longer follow the WTBTS's leadership?
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
Although I do not feel that any scandal would cause a majority of JWs to leave the WTBTS, I do feel that most JWs would leave the WTBTS if the WTBTS required that all JW publishers donate 10% of their income to the WTBTS.
JWs seem to leave the WTBTS when it is more painful to remain a JW than to leave. Can you imagine how painful it would be for older JWs to stay if they were required to donate 10% of their retirement income to the WTBTS. Of course the WTBTS could lovingly sell the concept to the older JWs who owned property to donate all their assets to the WTBTS when they die.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
hi, i am completing a degree in psychology, while doing so a subject on social psychology has some interesting subjects on persuasion and change techniques.
so while not all circumstances are different doing so in this manner is the most efficient way:.
1. do not allow the argument to become heated, studies have showed that people tend to use less of the left side of the brain (left side is where all rational and logical cognitions take place, right hemisphere of the brain is all emotion).. 2. don't be a hypocrite, if they get angry and upset they subconsciently expect you to do the same to prove themselves that what they are doing is correct, speak calmly with a monotone voice and try to calm the other person down.. 3. build rapport, rapport can only come from genuine empathy so do not pretend or they will see right through you.
paranoia agent - You see when you and I were jw's we didn't walked around in the truth and thought of if this religion is possibly false, there were other factors at play here. In my opinion long term jw's become low contemplators’, they don’t think it through well because they don't have to, because they found the true religion and their god asks of them not to worry as long their do as told, locking themselves and throwing away the key
Hi paranoia agent, Sorry, although I studied with JWs at the insistance of a former friend who is a "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JW, I was never a JW. I have only be adversely affected by the WTBTS and do not like how they victimize JWs with BITE control techniques.
I'm sure that JWs remain in the WTBTS for many reasons including fear of losing contact with family and friends, low self-esteem, fear of having to think for themselves, fear of missing out on living in paradise after the Big A, etc. IMHO, If you can find out what motivates a JW to remain in the WTBTS and what makes the authentic persona happy, then you have two powerful keys to help a JW to critically think for themselves if one is patient and knows how to use them. The good thing about JWs is that they behave in predictable ways so it is helpful to have general methods for overcoming their platitudes that the WTBTS has taught them.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
he was up in my area visiting relatives.
it was so nice to see each other in person after well over a decade.
we have been communicating by e-mail and phone after connecting on facebook a few years ago.. we went to a local restaurant and talked for almost two hours.
I'm happy for your friend LongHairGal. I wish that more JWs could critically think for themselves and overcome their fears. Life would be soooo much sweeter for them.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
just before i started undressing to take a shower to go to an appointment, the door bell rang.
i thought about not answering the door, but then thought what the hell it could be my neighbor, who is a widow and in her 70's, needing some help.. at the door was a frail man about 85+ years old dressed in a shabby sport coat, shirt, tie, and slacks, and a skinny woman about 75+ years old in a long dress that needed to be ironed.
as i grabbed my dog to prevent him from jumping at the screen door, which was partially open, and beating the couple with his tail and making them fall, i thought what am i going to do.
@ JakeM2012 and ILoveTTATT, I agree with you about being polite and not planting seeds of doubt in JWs who would suffer too much emotional pain from learning TTATT versus living a life free from the WTBTS. That is why I would only invite them in for coffe/tea and listen to them so that they would have less time to pass out Memorial invitations.
@ Faithful Witness, I agree with you about decreasing your reverse witnessing efforts if it will adversely affect your children. Although your children are too important to be recruited into the WTBTS, I do feel that teaching them how to critically think for themselves is very important especially considering that you have JW family who may try to indoctrinate them into the WTBTS if given a chance.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
