Posts by ABibleStudent

35

Do you have any "one-liners" for drive-by witnessing?

by Faithful Witness in

i am looking for things i can say in passing, when i meet some of my jw friends.

we used to attend meetings, but have not been officially recognized yet, as apostates.

we were good and curious students, but fell away and were choked out by weeds.. since i will be renewing my bible student status soon, i am hoping this will open more windows into the organization.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, Other than calling the WTBTS a dangerous cult or disagreeing with the WTBTS, I don't know what will trigger a JW's cult persona.

You might try to reach a JW's authentic persona by starting your questions with "Someone I know told me that (insert some provocative statement)." or "If you were me and learning about WTBTS doctrines, how would you respond to JWs about (insert some provocative statement like shunning, blood doctrine, WTBTS protecting pedophiles, changing doctrines, having the GB as a mediator with God instead of Jesus Chirst, etc.)."

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

25

JW Wife complications

by manda63 in

jw
friends

hi, my wife became a jw about 25 years ago and at the time while it all sounded crazy to me but i could see not wrong and have no problem with people having a religion , it started to become apparent that her choice of religion was almost cult like with all the controls in place.

we no longer have a social life together as she will only be with clan members not wordly people and i have stopped going round to her friends houses for get togethers becouse i am sick to death of being questioned and mocked about my beliefs,hearing other religion being called so harsh,wordly people being talked about as if scum and all the other haughty talk.

i am not allowed any material in the house that might be apostate,satanic?

ABibleStudent

Welcome manda63, DITTO big time what OnTheWayOut and jgnat wrote about reading Steve Hassan's books, visiting his website www.freedomofmind.com, and watching his videos on his website. The nice thing about watching Steve Hassan's videos and reading his e-books are that they are not in your house. I recommend watching the following videos:(2003) Steve Hassan explains SIA method to rescue a loved ones from unhealthy situations, NY Ethical Culture Society February 2013 (41:09), NY Ethical Culture Society 2010 (40:56).

I'm sorry that your wife is a "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JW and I'm glad that you still love her. If you become too frustrated with your wife's behavior, please vent on JWN instead of venting at your wife and/or see a cult-exit counselor before seeing a lawyer.

If you want to help your wife to critically think for herself, then I recommend that you do the following:

Write a plan to help your wife to think for herself. Your first step should be doing plenty of research.
Research the WTBTS and learn Steve Hassan's methods for communicating with dangerous cult members, so that you have a repertoire of repsonses that you can use to counter-act the thought-stopping platitudes that the WTBTS teaches JWs. Please visit the websites www.jwfacts.com, www.watchtowerdocuments.com, www.jwsurvey.org, and www.freeminds2.org, and www.freedomofmind.com. Please checkout the thread Do you have any "one-liners" for drive-by witnessing?.
Ask your wife simple questions that help you learn more about how your wife thinks and to improve communications with your wife. I would recommend that you read Harville Hendrix's book "Getting the Love that You Want: A Couple's Guide" to help you to communicate better with your wife. Learning how to reasure your wife that you do listen to her will help her to love you more and hopefully the WTBTS less.
Ask your wife simple questions that plant seeds of doubt in her when her authentic persona is in control and not her cult persona of her personality. Be very careful about asking your wife the following question. A very good question to ask your wife when her authentic persona is in a reflective mood (and possibly drunk) is "What would cause her to believe that the Watchtower does not represent Jehovah on earth?" It would help you to narrow down what you need to do to help her to critically think for herself.
What kind of hobbies does your wife like to do for fun and consume time and may interfere with WTBTS meetings? Does your wife like to dance socially, to travel, to bicycle, play golf? Do activities that she loves to do and you can do together that are fun and do not talk about the WTBTS - life is too short to waste talking about WTBTS doctrines.
If you are a christian, start having a Bible study night with your wife. Start with the NT at the beginning of Mathew and read every chapter. Your objective would be to help your wife recognize that the Pharisees and Sadducees used BITE control techniques to victimize Jews and how Jesus Christ responded to them. DO NOT compare them to the WTBTS - let your wife draw her own conclusions.
If you have children, help your children to critically think for themselves. You do not want them wasting their lives being victimized by the WTBTS and they may be able to help you to help your wife to critically think for themselves.

Best of wishes helping your wife to critically think for herself.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

37

My Mom Is Finally Seeing The Light!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i am very happy that my dear old mom is finally seeing the truth about the "truth".

what hit her like a ton of bricks is the latest wt.

study article that exalts the governing body and pretty much negates everything the bible students and russell, the founder of the watchtower, ever said was truth!.

ABibleStudent

Congratulations minimus on helping your mother to critically think for herself. As long as your mother does not donate another penny to the WTBTS or have them in her will that is a very good thing!!

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

35

Do you have any "one-liners" for drive-by witnessing?

by Faithful Witness in

i am looking for things i can say in passing, when i meet some of my jw friends.

we used to attend meetings, but have not been officially recognized yet, as apostates.

we were good and curious students, but fell away and were choked out by weeds.. since i will be renewing my bible student status soon, i am hoping this will open more windows into the organization.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, This is turning into an interesting thread. Black Sheep brought up a very important point. Since the WTBTS teaches JWs thought-stopping platitudes, any person planning to reverse witness needs to have comebacks to overcome the WTBTS's thought stopping platitudes. Having additional one-liners is good, but if someone is not prepared fo overcome the WTBTS's thought-stopping platitudes a JW will most likely ignor what is said. Another thing to consider is how to deliver your combacks and choosing which comebacks to say to avoid being labeled "Spiritually Weak" (still thinking) or an apostate.

If you want to stay under a JW's "Apostate" radar, what do you think of the following one-liners:

Sweetly asking "Are you feeling ok? Is anything bothering you?" and just let the JW talk and continue to ask more questions while repeating back to them with slightly different wording what they said to you to show that you heard what they said. I would recommend reading Harville Hendrix's book, "Getting the Love that You Want: A Guide for Couples" to learn more about this type of communication technique.
To counter when a JW says "Where else would/shall we go?", sweetly ask them "Don't you mean to whom shall we go? According to John 6:68 the answer is to Jesus Chirst."
If a JW says "We follow Jesus Christ. He is our mediator with Jehovah.", ask them "Are you annointed? Doesn't the Watchtower encourage JWs to follow the GB as the mediator between JWs and Jehovah, such as in the July 15, 2013 Watchtower? Checkout the thread Need article about looking to the slave rather than Christ for salvation for additional references.

If you are not worried about activating a JW's cult persona, what do you think of the following:

To counter "Jehovah needs an organization on earth", sweetly ask "Were the Pharisees and Sadducess the leaders of the Jewish religion and represented Jehovah on earth? Why did Jehovah send Jesus Christ to earth when he had an orgnization on earth that represented him? What did Jesus Christ (and Jehovah [Mt 11:27]) think about the leaders of the Jews (see Mt 22-24)? Where in the Bible did Jesus Christ say that Jehovah needs an organization on earth? Wasn't the Holy Spirit sent after Jesus Christ's resurrection to help guide followers of Christ (John 14:15-31 , Mark 13:11, Luke 12:11-13)?
To counter JWs are a loving people, sweetly ask "What is the greatist commandment and the second one (Mt 22:37-40)? How can you justify shunning JWs/exJWs who no longer believe that the WTBTS is Jehovah's organization on earth with the two greatist commandments? Would you like being shunned for believing that the Watchtower does not represent God on earth? How are JWs more loving than non-JWs who do not shun loved ones for believing differently?
Sweetly ask a JW "What would cause you to doubt that the Watchtower represents Jehovah on earth?" Simon asks either this question or something like it and wrote about it on a thread that I was unable to quickly locate on JWN. After the JW answers, start asking more relevent questions that counter what the JW said.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

35

My introduction

by zakharijah in

ok i think its time i introduce myself... and sorry, its going to be verrry long.. .

i am 32, married, 2 children.

i am french but i live in scotland.. .

ABibleStudent

Welcome akharijah, Since you seem to have dodged the WTBTS's "Shun Gun" bullets, why did you join JWN? Are you afraid that your JW family may change their attitude towards you with the changes in the WTBTS's doctrines?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

43

Need advice: Witnessing to a JW at my door

by Faithful Witness in

i have been waiting for this moment, and it has finally come!

i was actually in the middle of typing in the other thread, about householders who caused you doubts, when a jw rang my doorbell.

my barking german shepherd didnt scare him away, but did knock all his books out of his hand and onto a wet porch, which i really felt bad about.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, The WTBTS teaches JWs to use the Bible Teach pamphlet to indoctrinate potential recruits. Using that pamphlet also will help you because you will set a limit of about an hour for a bible study and want to start at the beginning of the book. Try to cover less than 5 pages per study and research what will be covered so that you are prepared with simple questions and/or selected scriptures to cause seeds of doubt. Ask lots of questions such as how does your bible conductor feel about something in the pamphlet and about scripture(s) that counters what the WTBTS references.

Be prepared for JWs to lie or deceive you. An elder use to tell me that I was not of the right heart/mind to understand bible mysteries and actually said that JWs do not shun family members or close friends. You will need to think of comebacks for such types of thought-stopping platitudes/tactics. After several bible studies having WTBTS publications handy may help to catch a JW lying, but I would refrain from doing that until a JW starts to express doubts. Showing a JW that he/she is lying to you, may end your bible studies permanently.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

12

Please help me with my mother...

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

ok so... now knowing how important it is not to "spill all the beans"... i am working secretly and cautiously on getting my mother out!.

i have started with some recon work:.

me: so mom, how did you come into the truth?.

ABibleStudent

ILoveTTATT - Mom (with a WTH? look on her face): Yes, I just knew it was the right thing. If Jehovah says it, it must be the right thing. (My Mom consistently does this: there is absolutely no difference in her mind between Jehovah and the GB. For her they are one and the same.)

Hi ILoveTTATT, Don't get too frustrated with your mom's inability to differentiate between the GB and Jehovah. Most "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JWs do the same thing. I noticed the same thing about my former friend who is "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) and I was impressed that Steve Hassan wrote about it in CCMC how dangerous cults use cult speak to control members. Also, it is very good that you watch your mother's body language, because her body will not lie to you where as she will respond verbally how the WTBTS has taught her to.

Since your mother appears to be a "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JW, you must go very, very slow with her. Keep on asking her questions about her life and how she feels. Try to discover what triggers her authentic persona to overcome her cult persona. Ask her more questions about her childhood and what she enjoyed when she was young. She may have some repressed memories about the JWs if her mother did not like the WTBTS. Ask questions that will help your mother seperate how your grandmother felt about the WTBTS versus JWs. Did your grandfather (not your grandpa) study with JWs?

If your father is still having doubts, invite your parents to study the bible with you. Start at the beginning of a book in the NT and continue to read it from beginning to end without jumping around like the WTBTS teaches JWs to do to indoctrinate potential recruits. Try to show your mother how the Pharisees and Sadducees used BITE control techniques to victimize JWs without saying BITE control techniques. You could ask her questions about how Jesus Christ felt about the Pharisees and Sadducees to hopefully break the WTBTS's induced platitude that "Jehovah needs an organization on earth to guide JWs" without saying it to your mother. I recommend starting with Mathew.

Have you discovered hobbies that your mother likes that are time consuming and would interfere with her attending meetings or going in FS?

Does your mother suffer from any unexplained illnesses (i.e., psychosomatic disorders)?

Best of wishes helping your mother to critically think for herself.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

43

Need advice: Witnessing to a JW at my door

by Faithful Witness in

i have been waiting for this moment, and it has finally come!

i was actually in the middle of typing in the other thread, about householders who caused you doubts, when a jw rang my doorbell.

my barking german shepherd didnt scare him away, but did knock all his books out of his hand and onto a wet porch, which i really felt bad about.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, You first need to get to know your bible conductor (at least two meetings) as a person (what does he/she fear, what makes them happy, etc.), read Steve Hassan's book(s), and establish some common ground rules for the Bible Study (even if it is in your mind only). Also, you might want to learn how to use http://www.biblegateway.com to help you quickly locate versus in the Bible.

When my former friend setup a bible study with a brother for me, I only agreed to as long as the brother did not bring any WTBTS propaganda with him and used only the Bible. The brother would skip around the bible and cherry pick versus to attempt to prove the WTBTS's doctrines that people need to be guided by an organization. The bible study only lasted two meetings, because I started to feel that the brother was trying to indoctrinate me and I was not prepared for when the brother tried to change topics when I was refuting the WTBTS's blood doctrine. Like I have said before I wish I had read Steve Hassan's books before doing the bible study.

In hind-sight I feel that I should have let the JW feel that he was in charge and only ask simple, open-ended questions about what the JW said. I should have let him use the Bible Teach book and be prepared to ask simple questions that contradict what is written in the Bible Teach Book. The rules that I should have established early on are that I prefer to read the NT because I want to follow Jesus Christ's example, read an entire chapter to understand the context of a verse in a chapter to slow down the WTBTS's tactics of cherry picking verses and changing topics when a JW gets stumped, discourage a JW from changing topics when they get stumped, and have some sizzling comebacks for standard WTBTS's platitudes that JWs are taught.

To counter "Jehovah needs an organization on earth", ask your conductor "Were the Pharisees and Sadducess the leaders of the Jewish religion and represented Jehovah on earth? Why did Jehovah send Jesus Christ to earth when he had an orgnization on earth that represented him? What did Jesus Christ (and Jehovah) think about the leaders of the Jews (see Mt 23-24)? Where in the Bible did Jesus Christ say that Jehovah need an organization on earth? Why was the Holy Spirit sent after Jesus Christ's death (use Biblegateway to quickly find the scriptures)?

To counter the unparrellel love in the WTBTS organization, ask your conductor "What is the greatist commandment and the second one (search Mathew with Biblegateway)? How can you justify shunning JWs/exJWs who no longer believe that the WTBTS is Jehovah's organization on earth with the two greatist commandments?

Best wishes with your reverse witnessing.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

62

The Lawsuit Landslide: Irwin Zalkin representing ELEVEN child abuse victims against Watchtower

by cedars in

many of you will be interested to know that irwin zalkin now has 11 lawsuits against watchtower at various stages.. these can be summarized as follows.... j.l.

shocked by the lack of action, the victims mother immediately left the congregation with her son.

by this stage campos was a known predator with complaints having been made to the elders at linda vista spanish, playa pacifica spanish and the watchtower dating back to 1982.elizabeth mcfarland ohio a former ministerial servant named scott silvasy sexually molested elizabeth when she was a child through her early teens.

ABibleStudent

Thanks for sharing ceders.

I hope that the victims get to confront the perpatrator as well as his benefactor the WTBTS in court.

Bringing down the WTBTS is not as important as protecting JW children. If the lawsuits causes the GB and high-level WTBTS leadership some sleepless nights, hopefully they will start to rethink their child protection policy.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

4

Would a YouTube Video About Using JWN Help New Members?

by ABibleStudent in

although using jwn is very easy for me, i started wondering if member's who are technologically challenged would appreciate watching a video about how to navigate through jwn.

by posting the video on youtube it might inspire some jws to visit jwn.

what do you feel?.

ABibleStudent

Although using JWN is very easy for me, I started wondering if member's who are technologically challenged would appreciate watching a video about how to navigate through JWN. By posting the video on YouTube it might inspire some JWs to visit JWN. What do you feel?

Regards,

Robert