Posts by ABibleStudent

21

I'm postponing my JW elderette and her BS session again

by Faithful Witness in

i really do have more important things to do this week, so i am postponing my elderette again.

she has not yet contacted me for her "topic of discussion" for the week.

i know she wants time to prepare her speech and presentation.

ABibleStudent

You are gaining a lot of great experience Faithful Witness with your two elderettes so that you can eventually help your family to critically think for themselves. I'm proud of your progress and desire to help your JW family and other JWs to critically think for themselves.

Just remember:

That your emotional health and happiness, and your family's happiness and welfare come first!
Learn how to control your emotions and adapt your plan(s) while listening to your elderettes like Steve Hassan says in his video Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23) .
Learn how to listen compassionately to your elderettes' authentic personas, so that you can ask effective and simple questions to empower their authentic personas to critically think for themselves.
Learn how to overcome thought-stopping platitudes and confront JWs about using generalities by asking them simple questions so that they question their cult personas' persepective.
Relate your personal experience with your family to your elderettes and how you cannot understand how your sister treats you and your family and can say that she is a Chirstian, who follows the teachings and examples of Jesus Christ. Your opinions are valid. If your elderettes start talking down to you, try to get their authentic personas to see your prespective, ask them specific questions for them to justify their prespective using the teachings of Jesus Christ, and/or show them Steve Hassan's video How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01). It should be very difficult for your elderettes' authentic personas to justify prejudice and bigotry based on Christianity without bringing reproach on the WTBTS.
Learn how to turn their cult personas on and off.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

30

Studied with JW grandma for 3 years and went to meetings, I have now seen the light!

by yogosans14 in

im new here and im 17, going to turn 18 in 1 week.

i studied with my gradma the bible teach book and went to meeting with her and other relatives (considering most my relatives are jw except my parents) and i believe in all of it because i never read the bible for myself.

after reading the gospels i started noticing contradictions in the jw doctrine like when jesus said many would dine with the patriachs in the kingdom of heaven (yet only 144,000 jws can) which would seem odd considering the fact he adressed this to more then the apostles.

ABibleStudent

Welcome yogosans14 and thanks for sharing your insights. IMHO it is better to follow Jesus Christ's advice of following God's Greatist Commandments in Mt 22:37-40 to interpret the scriptures instead of using WTBTS propaganda. It is hard to follow an organization's doctrines when God's Greatist Commandment is to Love God with "ALL" your heart, mind, and soul. There is no room for blindly following an organization's doctrines or its leaders.

If most of your relatives are JWs, you are very lucky that your parents are not JWs. Why are your parents not JWs and why do they let your Grandmother take you to the meetings?

Although the WTBTS refers to itself as a religion, it is more of a printing, print distribution, and real estate holding corporation that uses BITE control techniques to victimize JWs just like the Pharises and Sadducees did to the Jews during the time of Jesus Christ. If you independently research the WTBTS's history through reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com, www.freedomofmind.com, www.watchtowerdocuments.com, www.jwsurvey.org, and www.freeminds2.org, you will be more shocked than what you learned by comparing WTBTS propaganda to the Bible.

If you want to learn more about how the WTBTS uses BITE control to victimize JWs, please watch the FREE videos The BITE Model (Behavior Information Thought Emotion) (5:03) and Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23) by Steve Hassan, a reputable cult-exit couselor.

I hope that you continue to vent about your WTBTS experiences on JWN instead of telling your JW relatives about what you learn, because it may adversely affect your relationships with them.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

8

When in Rome.....

by quellycatface in

jw
friends

hi there.. have finally taken the bull by the horns and booked a trip to rome.

always wanted to go.

great architecture, food and atmosphere.. of course, i have to do the vatican.after seeing it all in angels and demons, plus the sistine chapel etc..... has anyone else been to rome??

ABibleStudent

Congratulations quellycatface and ILoveTTATT on visiting Rome this year!

Rome has many historical sites to visit within the city and to the south such as Pompeii or to the east such as Villa d'Este adjacent to the town of Tivoli. The internet makes it very easy to plan a trip with websites like http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g187791-Activities-Rome_Lazio.html. I used Tripadvisor to create my iteneray of places of interest and places to eat when I bicycled from Paris, France to and through Normandy, France in 2012.

I have toured the Vatican and it has an immense collection of statues that were displayed like in a very large warehouse setting. Because there is so much to see, take take to relax and enjoy the culture. It was easy to walk around central Rome and/or use the buses/metro. I do not think that I would rent a car in Rome, because of traffic congestion and parking availability. I think it is better to schedule bus tours to outlying points of interest.

Of course, be careful to secure your valuables at all times from pick-pockets. While in Italy my friend was robbed on a train, because she left her camera and some money in a back-pack under her seat when we went to get something to eat.

Bon Voyage,

Robert

11

My Update

by nolongerconfused in

hello friends..... i have posted off and on for maybe a year and half?...

just to update you guys on where i am.

writing this makes me feel better.. i was baptized when i was 9 years old along with the rest of my immediate family.

ABibleStudent

Thanks for sharing your experiences nolongerconfused.

Do you have a vision of what you want from a relationship? Do you want a healthy, loving partnership with someone with shared common interests, or a some type of co-dependent relationhsip, which I consider to be unhealthy - especially with a narcissist? The cult persona of a JW definately leans towards narcissism and highly-controlling.

I was married to a non-JW, who I feel had strong narcissist and controlling tendancies towards the end of our marriage. Before getting married I did not have a good vision of what qualities I wanted in a wife and my personality was not as confident and developed as I am now. After getting divorced, it was weird how it took about 4 years to get over my feelings for my ex-wife. Now I am so much happier. I cannot imagine still being married to her. She has only gotten more controlling and narcissistic towards her current husband according to my former step-son when he talks about her. I never ask about his mother, because I don't want to know.

Move on. Date women and learn from each relationship what you want in a relationship. It is a trail and error process that eventually helps you to learn and know what you want from a potential spouse.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

17

How do you get a word in edge-wise, when talking to a JW?

by Faithful Witness in

just looking for some pointers, as i was never a jw.

i have an elderette coming over on friday, for another performance.. last week, i was under the impression that she was coming to answer some questions i had.

it quickly became clear that she came with a plan for the "conversation," and we went on an expedition from one passage of the bible to the next, while she made leaping claims, argued with herself and kept me confused and always with more than one question lingering in my mind, while she continued talking and talking.. when i have a conversation with someone, i tend to stop talking when they are speaking.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, There is nothing you can do to confront a JW's cult persona head on, unless you want to end your bible study using "Shock and Awe" techniques?

Before I new about Steve Hassan's BITE control methods and reading about the experiences of other JWN members, I had two bible studies with an elder and another with a brother. The elder used the same techniques as your elderette, but also wanted to form a personal relationship with me so he spent a lot of time talking about non-JW topics. Based on my experiences with the elder, I feel that his authentic persona was stronger than your elderette's authentic persona. The brother on the other hand had a very strong cult persona and wanted to indoctrinate me more than the elder and ended his indoctination of me when I become more confrontational with his views that "True Christians" need an organization to lead them. With the brother, I believe, that I successfully caused him cognitive dissonance about the WTBTS's blood policy because he switched his tactics to "True Christians" need an organization to lead them. I wish I knew to ask him to show me in the Bible that Jesus Christ said that.

Based on my two experiences, IMHO your best options are:

Ask your elderettes simple questions to learn more about their authentic personas;
Learn how to turn off and on a JW's cult persona. When you greet your edlerettes, keep your elderettes off balance by asking if something is bothering them because of their clothing, make-up, or hair being out of place or out of character. Offer them cookies and tea and engage them in social conversations as soon as possible. Everyone is different so listen to what your elderettes say and observe your elderettes' body language. Alter your body language to experiment with how it effects your elderettes'.
Ask simple, short questions about showing you that Jesus Christ taught or showed by example with a non-WTBTS Bible or some other non-WTBTS reference about what they said when they use circular logic statements, unsubstantiated statements, or make unhealthy comments about you not having the right attitude. If the elderettes can not relate to you asking them why are they making unhealthy comments about your attitude though an example like being pressured by a car salesman or time-share salesman, then show them Steve Hassan's video How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01) Also, counter their thought-stopping platitudes whenever you can with short counter statements and/or questions. By gently confronting a JW's cult persona, you will be helping their authentic persona to become stronger.
Do not spend more than 1-1/2 hours studying with your elderettes to maintain your emotional well-being and reduce your frustrations. Always tell your elderettes that you have a pre-exiting appointment before they come over so that they will not overstay their welcome.

Making declaritive statements to confront JWs directly about WTBTS doctrine will end a conversation quickly. Over the years the WTBT has indoctrinated JWs with layers of BITE control defenses. It could take years to deprogram "Spiritually Stong" (non-thinking) JWs unless you can get help from their authentic personas. You can help a JW's authentic persona to become stronger by removing the BITE control protective layers, getting them to talk about what bothers them about the WTBTS and/or other JWs in a safe environment, by helping them to critically think for themselves, and helping them to turn off their cult personas by talking about routine non-JW subjects that they enjoy talking about.

You are doing very well and are very lucky to have two elderettes helping you to control your emotions and to perfect your reverse-witnessing skills so that you can help you JW family critically think for themselves.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

32

I made my daughters cry last night.....

by Ugottabefresh in

...when i told them i didn't believe anymore.

they cried like i'd never seen before.

my oldest, 10, pleaded with me that she'd do anything to get me to keep going to meetings ("i'll get a's on my report card!").

ABibleStudent

Ugottabefresh - Background: still married to the kids' mother, a believer, and I consider myself a Secular Humanist so no desire to go to a different church. Too much bloodshed and bigotry in the name of god.

Hi Ugottabefresh, Would you classify your wife as "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) or "Spiritually Weak" (still thinking)? Do you love your wife? The bottom line is do you feel that your wife loves you more than the WTBTS or less?

If your wife is "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking), don't say anything more to your family about your feelings towards the WTBTS. As long as you pretend to blindly follow the WTBTS, you may be able avoid being DF'ed. Do not DA yourself if you want to successfully fade from the WTBTS with your family.

Vent your feelings on JWN and ask for advice about how you can help your family critically think for themselves.

Make your plans about how to fade from the WTBTS with your family. Your plan should include the following:

Be patient and compassionate towards your JW family and friends, and love them unconditionally by showing them all the time and in everyway possible. Let them discover TTATT on their own.
Do as much independent research of the WTBTS as possible by visiting reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com and www.freedomofmind.com and reading books by Raymond Franz ("Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom"), Don Cameron ("Captive of a Concept"), and by cult experts like Steve Hassan.
Ask your JW family members simple questions to learn more about how you can encourage their authentic persona's to become stronger. Learn how to ask questions like Billy the Ex-Bethelite did in the thread exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed to slowly plant seeds of doubt in your family. Be patient when planting seeds of doubt. When your wife asks you questions, encourage her to do her own independent research and that you are willing to listen to her opinions without judging her.
Encourage your children to critically think for themselves. Read other threads on JWN about members helping their children to critically think for themselves such as the Thankyou dad, for making me think... by Aussie Oz.
Encourage your children to meet non-JW children, to make play dates with non-JW children who have parents that you and your wife may share common interests.
Take your family on fun outings where they will meet non-JWs who they may share common interests.
Encourage your family members to become involved in time consuming hobbies that they love and will take time away from WTBTS activities.
Obain more education/training to qualify for a better paying career. This will also allow you to attend less meetings and FS. If your wife asks you why, just tell her because the WTBTS does not know when the Big "A" will come, and you love your family and want the best for them.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

32

I made my daughters cry last night.....

by Ugottabefresh in

...when i told them i didn't believe anymore.

they cried like i'd never seen before.

my oldest, 10, pleaded with me that she'd do anything to get me to keep going to meetings ("i'll get a's on my report card!").

ABibleStudent

Welcome Ugottabefresh, I'm sorry for the pain that you felt, but you can help your children to critically think for themselves and achieve their full potential free of the WTBTS. Are you married? Do you have custody of your children?

If you have custody of your children, encourage them to make more non-JW friends, do fun activities with them where they will meet more non-JWs, and teach them how to critically think for themselves. If you haven't read books by cult-exit counselors, I would recommend that you read Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs"), visit his website www.freedomofmind.com, and watch his FREE videos on his website.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

ABibleStudent

What major WTBTS change(s) do you predict for 2014?: ABibleStudent - My premise is that the WTBTS is a business, a dangerous cult, and that its printing operations are losing money. I feel that the WTBTS will either start to require that JWs tithe at least $2/wk/publisher in G20 countries (~ $400 million/yr of income), and/or only print the simplified edition Watchtowers/Awake! propaganda.

It seems that the WTBTS will be implementing mandatory tithing in 2014. One prediction may be complete. One to go for 2014.

Considering that the WTBTS has promoted over the last 80 years that JWs not have children, JWs not get married, discouraged JWs from obtaining a college education to qualify for a better paying career, and/or promoting that JWs purchase internet devices for FS, publisher numbers should be peaking by 2016 and falling rapidly there after unless the WTBTS changes qualification criteria for publishers or reduces its burden on JWs. According to the Pew Report (http://religions.pewforum.org/reports/), “ Jehovah's Witnesses have the lowest retention rate of any religious tradition. Only 37% of all those who say they were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses still identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses." I doubt that the WTBTS will be successful recruiting more non-JWs with reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com, www.freedomofmind.com, www.watchtowerdocuments.com, www.jwsurvey.org, and www.freeminds2.org.

Therefore, I wonder if the WTBTS is purposely trying to cull the flock, so that it can free up a lot of real estate assets and retain a smaller and more "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JWs to serve the WTBTS.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

130

Involved with a JW woman

by jonza in

okay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.

i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.

we're in love and seriously want to be together.

ABibleStudent

jonza - So given that, should I still move forward with this relationship? I'm sure she will at some point want them, will I be able to keep her from taking them to a KH?

Hi jonza, If she can pass the acid test I suggested earlier, then she might be able to critically think for herself. You need to decided whether to pull off the bandaid fast with a lot of pain or slowly with incremental increases in pain. When you are together, ask her to watch Steve Hassan's video Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23). If you feel a softer approach is needed than when you are together ask her to watch the following videos in the order presented:

How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01)
NY Ethical Culture Society February 2013 (41:09)
Watch while drinking chardonay and eating chocolate covered strawberries http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIDwXYACfmM

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

ABibleStudent

Why is anyone on JWN surprised by this WTBTS change? Does this mean that WTBTS is now becoming like other religions? I wonder how JWs will spin this new arrangement?

BTW skeeter1 I like your analysis of why the WTBTS is making the change. The WTBTS avoids taxes and has a continual flow of money.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert