Posts by ABibleStudent

85

My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness in

she has had 42 years of training and indoctrination.

i'm feeling sort of nervous, but also looking forward to it.

this will be our second scheduled session together, and we never did agree on a topic.. i'm assuming she will come with an agenda and another prepared presentation.

ABibleStudent

Hi Faithful Witness, I wish you the BEST!

DITTO what cultBgone said about slowing Miss K down by at least repeating what she said back to her and then asking her a simple question about what she said.

It is very important that when you ask simple questions to sound sincere and inquisitive like you are trying to understand what Miss K is trying to teach you. You may become very frustrated listening to Miss K, so visualize in your mind something that makes you very happy so that your body language and tone of voice does not betray what you are thinking. Do you have a smartphone? Although it is illegal to record conversations without the other person knowing about it, recording your conversations with Miss K may help you to listen to how you sound to Miss K. After listening to the recording, just delete it.

Listen to what Miss K says to detect her using thought-stopping platitudes. If she does, try to overcome them if you feel you know how to or at least remember them for later.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

80

My Experience and how I finally let myself see the truth

by OneEyedJoe in

first off - for those lurkers who feel guilty just for being on this site and reading this (even if you don't read any further, as it is your right to choose that course) i want you to know that you're not alone in what you're going through or in what you are feeling.

if you read on, i hope my experience may be of some small help to you.. this may be long, but i'll try to organize it in a way that doesn't make it painful to read.

to start, i feel it is most beneficial if i'm upfront and honest with my goals from posting this, which are (in order of the degree to which they motivated me):.

ABibleStudent

OneEyedJoe - . . . However he's also expressed his own doubts about things, and just the other day stated of the overlapping generation change: "I don't like it because it puts the end further off." Of course he followed it up with a reference to John 6:68 saying "but where else would we go?" It may be wishful thinking, but the way he said it sounded like it had a hint of saddness in it, as if he actually wanted an alternative. Who knows, maybe this will lead somewhere. . . .

Hi OneEyedJoe, "but where else would we go?" is a good example of a thought-stopping platitude that JWs frequently use. Steve Hassan describes this in his books.

In time you may notice more thought-stopping platitudes. How would your FIL react if you responded, "Don't you mean whom and not where? Simon-Peter asked a rhetorical question in John 6:68. His answer was Jesus Christ and not where."

If you want a lively conversation, you could follow up with, "I have sometimes wondered why Jesus Christ did not order the twelve disciples to shun those disciples who left him in the desert in John 6:60-70. Have you every found a verse in the Bible where Jesus Christ endorsed shunning or not associating with people, who did not believe as he did?"

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

John 6:60-70

Many Disciples Desert Jesus

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit [a] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

33

A Text Message Exchange

by Emery in

jw
friends

i have been in the fading process for over a year now.

nobody has really bothered my wife and me since we've stopped, which i am thankful for.

recently, i've had an old jw friend send me a few text messages relating to business.

ABibleStudent

Friend: I don’t need any other facts. The preaching work is the single most important sign and thing that sets us apart and is there to show you the organization is from Jehovah. That is the whole key to everything as far as being able to determine the true religion.

Hi Emery, Thank you for sharing. You did a great job of trying to explain your feelings to your friend, but your friend does not want to be confused with facts that will cause him cognitive dissonance.

Writing to him about anything other than, "I love you unconditionally. I will always enjoy talking and spending time with you. I hope to chat with you soon." will probably adversely affect your fade. It sucks, but your friend is not ready to see TTATT.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

130

Involved with a JW woman

by jonza in

okay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.

i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.

we're in love and seriously want to be together.

ABibleStudent

Hi jonza, Be loving, patient, and compassionate. DO NOT get your hopes up until after she has done her own research and is not regurgitating what you told her. You want her to critically think for herself. It is better for you to ask her simple questions and encourage her to do her own independent research and critically think for herself.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

80

My Experience and how I finally let myself see the truth

by OneEyedJoe in

first off - for those lurkers who feel guilty just for being on this site and reading this (even if you don't read any further, as it is your right to choose that course) i want you to know that you're not alone in what you're going through or in what you are feeling.

if you read on, i hope my experience may be of some small help to you.. this may be long, but i'll try to organize it in a way that doesn't make it painful to read.

to start, i feel it is most beneficial if i'm upfront and honest with my goals from posting this, which are (in order of the degree to which they motivated me):.

ABibleStudent

Welcome OneEyedJoe, Thank you for sharing your story. Please vent on JWN as much as possible, so that you don't say anything to raise JW family and friends' suspicions.

It seems that today a few JWs have joined and written about their experiences. It is sad that the WTBTS's BITE control is so strong that JWs are afraid to express their doubts anonymously to strangers.

What is your plan to fade? Have you considered the following?

Obtaining more education/training to qualify for a better paying career. If your wife asks why, than ask your wife simple questions in the ways that Billy the Ex-Bethelite wrote in exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed. According to the WTBTS, you are the head of the family. You love your wife and are concerned about providing for your family in this "System" while you wait for the Big "A". Ask your wife, "How long has the WTBTS been saying the end is soon?" or "How can you balance your "Spiritual" desires (slaving for the WTBTS) verses providing for your family?"
Independently researching the WTBTS by visiting reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com,www.freedomofmind.com, www.watchtowerdocuments.com, www.jwsurvey.org, www.freeminds2.org, etc. While doing your research, look for keywords that you could suggest that your wife use to search the internet to answer your simple questions.
Reading information by cult-exit counselors like Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones to Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs", visiting his website www.freedomofmind.com, and watching his FREE videos on his website. The following three videos by Steve Hassan might give you some ideas to help your wife to critically think for herself: How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01), The BITE Model (Behavior Information Thought Emotion) (5:03) , Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003(1:23:23).
Asking your wife simple questions to learn more about what will empower her authentic persona to overcome her cult persona. Ask your wife about what she thought, as a child, her life would be like when she grew up, what she dreamt of doing when she grew up, or what fun, non-WTBTS activity she would like to do now. After you learn what activities that your wife would like to do that is fun, make plans to show your wife how much you love her by planning activities that are fun and where she will meet more non-JWs with similar interests. Have you searched the internet for local activities near you, visited www.meetup.com or signed-up on www.travelzoo.com for daily emails suggesting fun activities near you.
Making more non-JWs friends that you and your wife share similar interests so that you can build your support network when your JW friends and family start to shun you.
Hold a Bible Study night with your family. Your objective will be to ask your family what they feel about the scriptures and to ask them questions about what Jesus Christ felt about the Pharisees and Sadducees using BITE control techniques to victimize Jews. If you don't know what BITE control techniques are visitwww.freedomofmind.com. DO NOT try to draw parrellels between the WTBTS and the Pharisees and Sadducees - let your family figure that out by themselves.
Learn how to do the following:

Show and tell your wife and children how much you unconditionally love them.
Talk less and listen more to what JWs say and watch their body language.
Ask them simple questions to learn more about how to empower their authentic persona to overcome their cult persona.
How to turn on and off a JW's cult persona.
Learn what thought-stopping platitudes JWs use and then learn how to overcome those platitudes when you are ready and confident of the outcome.
Encourage your children to make non-JW friends, who you and your wife may share similar interests with their friends parents, encourage your children to make sleep-over dates with non-JWs, encourage your children to ask questions of what adults say so that they can learn to critically think for themselves, encourage your children to use the internet to research school topics, and encourage your children to obtain advanced education/training after high school.

Best of wishes successfully fading from the WTBTS with your wife.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

19

What if you were a member of the GB and you woke up

by enigma1863 in

what if you were a member of the gb and you woke up and realized it's all bs.

what would you do?

i would try to change the org from within..

ABibleStudent

Since most JWs only awaken when they are whipped too much by the WTBTS, I would vote for everything that the WTBTS is currently changing. Hopefully, it would wake-up more JWs. Fewer JWs is better than more JWs.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

6

Commitment

by goddidit in

i always wondered why jws found it so hard to just walk away once they decided they didn't believe anymore.

surely all they have to do is stop going to the meetings, i thought.

i imagined there must be more to it than i could see but i might never know.

ABibleStudent

Hi goddidit, Why are you afraid of leaving the WTBTS? Are you afraid that your JW family and friends will shun you? Are you afraid of meeting and making non-JW friends? Are you afraid that the WTBTS will be right about the Big "A" and that you will miss out on living in the WTBTS's Paradise?

What is your plan to overcome your fears? Have you considered the following?

Independently researching the WTBTS by visiting reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com,www.freedomofmind.com, www.watchtowerdocuments.com, www.jwsurvey.org, www.freeminds2.org, etc to either confirm your doubts or dismiss them.
Reading information by cult-exit counselors like Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones to Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs", visiting his website www.freedomofmind.com, and watching his FREE videos on his website. The following three videos by Steve Hassan are an inexpensive way to evaluate how Steve Hassan and his methods can help you: How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01), The BITE Model (Behavior Information Thought Emotion) (5:03) , Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003(1:23:23).
After you have confirmed your doubts that the WTBTS is victimizing JWs, Obtain more education/training to qualify for a better paying career. If your JW family and friends asks why, than ask them simple questions in the ways that Billy the Ex-Bethelite wrote in exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed. Tell your JW family and friends that you are concerned about providing for your family in this "System" while you wait for the Big "A" and ask them, "How long has the WTBTS been saying the end is soon?" or "How can you balance your "Spiritual" desires (slaving for the WTBTS) verses providing for your family?"
Asking your JW family questions to learn more about what will empower their authentic personas to overcome their cult personas. Ask them about what they thought, as a child, their life would be like when they grew up, what they dreamt of doing when they grew up, or what fun, non-WTBTS activity they would like to do now. After you learn what activities that they would like to do that is fun, make plans to show them how much you love them by planning activities that are fun and where they will meet more non-JWs with similar interests. Have you searched the internet for local activities near you, visited www.meetup.com or signed-up on www.travelzoo.com for daily emails suggesting fun activities near you.
Making more non-JWs friends that you and your JW family share similar interests so that you can build your support network when your other JW friends and family start to shun you.

Best of wishes successfully fading from the WTBTS with your JW family.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

6

Hassan's book

by lambsbottom in

jw
friends

wife is reading hassan's book right now.

classic to sit back and watch the veil be lifted.

shes been awake for about a 1.5 years now.

ABibleStudent

Congratulations lambsbottom!! How were you able to get her to read Hassan's Book? Which one?

I hope that you give her lots of hugs and tissues. She will be going through a grieving process soon for believing all the WTBTS lies that she was taught.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

67

Raising kids - JW mother, agnostic father

by Zana in

my wife and i have two wonderful children aged 1 and 3. i was raised as a lutheran but stopped believing in my late teen years.

my wife is what i would call a liberal jw (yes, i believe such people exist .

sooner or later our children will have questions about religion and the differences mom and dad show towards it.

ABibleStudent

Hi Zana, DITTO what other posters wrote about not raising your children in the WTBTS. Is your wife a born-in or recruited into the WTBTS?

To minimize triggering your wife's cult persona's persecution phobias, encourage your children to ask questions, critically think for themselves, to make non-JW friends, to arrange sleep-overs with non-JW children, who you share similar interests with their parents, and to play in sports.

If you do not know how powerful the WTBTS's BITE control techniques are, please research information by cult-exit counselors like Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves, and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind; Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs"), visiting his website www.freedomofmind.com, and watching his FREE videos on his website.

The more knowledgeable you are about the WTBTS: the more likely that you will make more informed decisions about raising your children. Visiting www.jwfacts.com would be a good start to educate yourself about the WTBTS's doctrines, flip-flopping doctrines, and its history. The WTBTS is not a religion as much as it is a printing, print distribution, and real estate holding corporation that victimizes JWs with BITE control techniques. It is not a Christian religion, because its doctrines ignor/spin many of the teachings and examples of Jesus Christ for its self-serving interest.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

59

JW Witnessing Trolleys. To approach or ignore what is your preference and why?

by KateWild in

i saw two brothers this morning next to the main train station in liverpool city centre this morning.

they were not actively approaching anyone.

what i found strange was that they were from a cong that has different territory, so i don't know why they were there.. anyway i knew them both, and they know i was df'd, i was in my car and couldn't park up for a chat, but i did beep and wave to them as i drove passed and they waved back.

ABibleStudent

I wish that the WTBTS would set up a cart near me. I would approach the cart and talk with the JWs, espeicially when JWs are talking to a non-JW. I would ask a few simple questions to plant seeds of doubt in them and the non-JW, as well as overcome WTBTS's thought-stopping platitudes.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert