Posts by ABibleStudent

58

New US Government Petition re: Cults and Tax Exemptions

by mind blown in

this is on the official us government site.. note: someone was under the impression this was unconstitutional and it wouldn't pass, however, steven unthank replyed that tax exempt status (re: usc title 26 501 tax exemptions requirements) is not a constitutional right and can indeed be regulated by the us government through the irs.

freedom of religion does no mean freedom from tax.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/protect-americans-dangerous-cults-modify-usc-title-26--501-tax-exemptions-requirements/zhpbvhfx.

ABibleStudent

Band on the Run - Robert lives in a fantasy land. The WT coerces no one in the legal sense of the word. Coercion would be force. There are countries in this world where freedom of religion does NOT exist. This petition is a travesty for all the activits in prison or otherwise persecuted for religous beliefs.
This is some world where one pulls legal precedent out of one's hat. Stick your hand out and see which way the wind blows.
Targeting any religion is unconst'l! If the Witnesses break criminal laws and do coerce, there are criminal statutes in every state and territory to deal with the criminality.

Hi Band on the Run, Are you feeling ok? I don't want you to feel any more hurt, but I don't like you misleading readers about the merits of the White House petition either. My latter feelings trump my feelings about you feeling hurt.

Please read a definition of coercion below from a website that promotes itself as a legal definition website. The WTBTS promotes coercion by promoting to JWs that they must shun unrepentant, rebellious JWs or former JWs, as if they are dead, in their publications and that any JW who publically disagrees with the WTBTS’s doctrines and leaders is behaving rebelliously. I may not be using coercion as a lawyer would in court, but it is so close I wonder why you disagree with me that the WTBTS promotes coercion of JWs. I bolded the words in the definition that seemed most relevant.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/coercion/
Coercion - Coercion generally means to impose one's will on another by means of force or threats. Coercion may be accomplished through physical or psychological means. It may occur in a variety of contexts, such as unfair trade practices, which prohibits coercion to sell insurance in most states.
Definitions vary by state and federal laws. For example, one state defines coercion as a crime when a person compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from engaging in, or to abstain from engaging in conduct in which he has a legal right to engage, by means of instilling in him a fear that, if the demand is not complied with, the actor or another will cause physical injury to a person or cause damage to property.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

19

Psychology - Articles: Mental health of Jehovah's Witnesses

by AndersonsInfo in

i'm curious.

for the benefit of all, perhaps some who were psychology students in college and are posters on jwn (and anybody else for that matter) would like to comment on the somewhat controversial material i've posted here which was sent to my face book page.the short article below in english was originally in italian and is google translated.

in this recent article, the italian psychology student who wrote it points to an "... old article by john spencer (psychiatrist) published in the '75 british journal of psychiatry , titled '"the mental health of jehovah's witnesses,"' which, the author said, "speaks for itself.

ABibleStudent

AndersonsInfo - After reading psychiatrist, John Spencer's old article, do you think his research is more or less relevant today?

Hi Barbara, Thanks for the articles. Since the WTBTS has become more of a dangerous cult than it was back in the 1960's to 1970's, John Spencer's statistics might be a little on the low side as to the annual rate per 1000 JW population now. My feeling is that cognitive dissonance is greater in JWs today than ~ 40 years ago. To me both articles support what many JWN members believe that the WTBTS is harming JWs, and could be used to justify that the WTBTS is a dangerous cult.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

76

What the Watchtower needs to do to survive.

by jwfacts in

drop its teaching on paradise earth.. the primary issue facing the watchtower results from it's teaching that members will never die, but live forever on this earth in paradise.

this teaching is cause of most of the doctrinal failures, and will be its eventual demise.. the promise of never dying is one of the foremost motivations for people that join the religion, and the message of living forever in paradise is compelling.

however, it is also the watchtower's achilles heel, as it forces false predictions of the nearness of the end.

ABibleStudent

jwfacts - The Catholics are an example of a religion with a terrible history of murder and corruption that still manages to survive in this enlighted era, where many followers are fully aware of their past. However, they have reformed to some extent. That is the hope I hold out for the Watchtower. If it cannot done away with, at least it can be reformed, for the sake of those that do not have what it takes to leave.

Hi jwfacts, After reading the article http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfellowship-shunning.php , it started me thinking that the WTBTS doctrines that are causing JWs the most turmoil are the ones that were instituted during the tenure of WTBTS Presidents Nathan Knorr and Freddie Franz (i.e., shunning, refusing blood, discouraging getting a higher education) and that armageddon is coming soon. If the WTBTS's GB made Knorr and Franz the scape goats and got rid of all doctrines instituted by Knorr and Franz, it might give the GB opportunities to modify the armageddon (and/or living forever in paradise) doctrines (and/or teachings). As you pointed out about the Catholic religion, Catholics' faith allowed them to forget or rationalize about the Church's history and the actions of its leaders. JWs might do the same thing if the changes are sold as "New Light". Of course there is also the risk that JWs might leave the organization en masse. Only the hard core are guaranteed to remain.

Also, OnTheWayOut I feel is right that the WTBTS's business model needs to be modified. Tithing might help them. Reducing printing and legal costs would definately help.

OnTheWayOut - Besides hiding their past in an information age, the other problem lies in their business model, not their doctrine. I think a core group could be led to accept just about anything. If several million didn't walk out on "overlap generations" then they would be safe to lead them on about paradise. But their business model has two huge problems. One is the decision as a tax exempt entity to give away the product. That has slowly gotten them into a changed world where people just won't donate money for the product. They are relying nearly exclusively on the members to foot the bill. The second is that they are a printing company in a world where newspapers and magazines are going out. Even if they could maintain the printing, the world will charge more for the paper and the ink as the world loses all their other print clients. I imagine TIME and NEWSWEEK and PLAYBOY and the likes are printing a lot less product these days. They charge advertisers for their profits and sell the product. To keep the sales cost down, they will eventually price the advertisers out, especially when their market is shrinking. Watchtower has none of that going for them, just free distributerships. So their model has the potential to outlast other magazines, but not forever.

Once the WTBTS stops behaving like a dangerous cult, opportunities may occur that will help the WTBTS. If the GB continues the WTBTS's current doctrines, the WTBTS will just continue its death spiral and harm more JWs lives on the way down.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

58

New US Government Petition re: Cults and Tax Exemptions

by mind blown in

this is on the official us government site.. note: someone was under the impression this was unconstitutional and it wouldn't pass, however, steven unthank replyed that tax exempt status (re: usc title 26 501 tax exemptions requirements) is not a constitutional right and can indeed be regulated by the us government through the irs.

freedom of religion does no mean freedom from tax.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/protect-americans-dangerous-cults-modify-usc-title-26--501-tax-exemptions-requirements/zhpbvhfx.

ABibleStudent

Band on the Run - What is the goal of the petition? Personal letters are more effective. Signing a petition is too easy. It shows minimal effort and interest. Unconst'l is unconst'l.

Hi Band on the Run, Have you read all my posts in the following threads, which you have posted on:

Because of your last sentence in your last post (see bolded words in quote box), I feel that you do not really want to know my goal for this petition, nor how many politicians and government officials that I have already mailed letters to and sent emails to, also. The answers are in the aforementioned threads.

In the three threads that promote the White House petition, you have not substantiated you opinion by quoting, citing, and providing links from/to any Supreme Court cases or quoting, citing, and providing links from/to any respected legal journals. I have cited and provided links to Supreme Court cases and IRS publications to prove my point to which you express your opinion that the cases do not prove that any law(s) inspired by this petition would be held Constitutional. You and I are not Supreme Court Justices nor high ranking government officials, so your opinion on this subject has the same weight as mine. Even Supreme Court Justices disagree about what is constitutional or not: just read the cases that I have cited by clicking on the provided links.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

58

New US Government Petition re: Cults and Tax Exemptions

by mind blown in

this is on the official us government site.. note: someone was under the impression this was unconstitutional and it wouldn't pass, however, steven unthank replyed that tax exempt status (re: usc title 26 501 tax exemptions requirements) is not a constitutional right and can indeed be regulated by the us government through the irs.

freedom of religion does no mean freedom from tax.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/protect-americans-dangerous-cults-modify-usc-title-26--501-tax-exemptions-requirements/zhpbvhfx.

ABibleStudent

Tha nks a million to the 84 people , who have signed the White House petition at http://wh.gov/Er4 !!

Unfortunately there are only 13 days left for 24,916 Americans to sign the petition before it will expire. Does anyone have ideas about how to inspire Americans to sign this petition?

I realize that this petition does not have the same emotional and political appeal to politicians as same-sex marriage. I do feel that protecting Americans from dangerous cults is a more important issue than same-sex marriage, because same-sex marriages do not victimize anyone but dangerous cults do!!

Currently, I am working on a Facebook page to promote the current White House petition as well as any follow on petition. Please visit http://www.facebook.com/pages/Protecting-Americans-from-Dangerous-Cults/264002310365016 . Does anyone have comments to improve this Facebook page, as well as, Facebook members liking it?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert

99

Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!

by garbonzo in

please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!.

white house.gov petition.

http://wh.gov/er4.

ABibleStudent

Thanks a million to the 84 people, who have signed the White House petition at http://wh.gov/Er4 !!

Unfortunately there are only 13 days left for 24,916 Americans to sign the petition before it will expire. Does anyone have ideas about how to inspire Americans to sign this petition?

I realize that this petition does not have the same emotional and political appeal to politicians as same-sex marriage. I do feel that protecting Americans from dangerous cults is a more important issue than same-sex marriage, because same-sex marriages do not victimize anyone but dangerous cults do!!

Currently, I am working on a Facebook page to promote the current White House petition as well as any follow on petition. Please visit http://www.facebook.com/pages/Protecting-Americans-from-Dangerous-Cults/264002310365016 . Does anyone have comments to improve this Facebook page, as well as, Facebook members liking it?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert

115

Disfellowshipped!

by Las Malvinas son Argentinas in

jw
friends

libertad!

though my story is a bit more complicated than that.

i live in argentina.

ABibleStudent

Las Malvinas son Argentinas - My mother then told me that she would not contact or speak to me, which hurt me the most. It hurt her too, but she did not need to take that firm of a decision. My brothers (whom I am very close to) took a more relaxed viewpoint and encouraged me to come back.
So I will go to Georgetown in Washington next year to start on graduate studies. My father and his family live nearby in Virginia, and they have agreed to help me. But I have not seen my father for many years. He left 20 years ago to the USA to work. He was a JW for a couple years, but couldn’t take it anymore, so he understands me. So I wish to clear things up here before I leave. Family is important to me and it’s a shame that these things can’t be better.

Welcome (((((Emilie)))) to JWN and I am sorry that your mother sided with a publiching corporation rather than with you. Since I have Argentinean friends and have visited Argentina, I understand your desire to keep your relationships with your family and friends. By the way your English is very good and you should have no problems with living in America.

Have you read Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves")? If you plan to follow the WTBTS's rules for a year, I would recommend reading those books to hopefully give you ideas to plant seeds of doubts in your family members. If your plans change and you stay in Argentina for several years, your JW friends and family may try to indoctrinate your child and cause you further anguish.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

47

Lots of JWs out at tables this morning!

by AuntBee in

so, i actually stopped at two different tables that i saw.

the first was 2 elderly men - they were so sweet and open to discuss.

i brought up the topic of the divine name and why the wt inserted it into the nt with no evidence from greek manuscripts.

ABibleStudent

Keep up the good work AuntBee!! You care more for the JWs than they care about you.

Based on the the JW women's reactions, it would appear that the women seemed to have more cognitive dissonance than the men - the men probably already have doubts.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

15

MENLO PARK KINGDOM HALL SHOWDOWN, REVEALS "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY STUPID!"

by Bubblegum Apotheosis in

sexual harrassment suits were running wild in american businesses throughout the 1990s, the end result was "sensitivity training" and forcing mangers to sign contracts that revealed "we understand sexual harrassment is bad!

if i touch a girl, i get sued and the company is free!".

elder's are now trained to handle every situation that can possibly come up, if a lawsuit emerges, the elders are sued and the watchtower, at their discretion can defend their elders if they feel it is to their best interest.

ABibleStudent

Juan Viejo2 - One caution: You must remember that the Menlo Park articles have proven that the Watchtower is no different than any other so-called Christian churches that mislead and fleece their flocks. So don't be too quick about jumping into other "Christian" faiths, even those that actually do good works with their money on behalf of the poor, the sick, and the forgotten among us. Feel free to donate your time and even your money, but don't give them your soul.

DITTO what Juan Viejo2 wrote. People can be spiritual (or choose to be non-spiritual) without joining a specific religious organization or sect that wants to control how members think, behave, and feel.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

12

Facebook Witnessing

by watson in

jw
friends

i have noticed that there are quite a few "friends" making a fine witness on facebook.

have you seen this too?.

ABibleStudent

How is this?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150388922345990&set=a.411043385989.206390.599630989&type=1&theater

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert