Posts by ABibleStudent

51

CO has been coming to my door. Would like 1 or 2 solid and easy arguments.

by The Laser Viking in

i am 6th generation.

i have been out for a few years.. back story on the situation:.

i had a co come by while going door-to-door in the neighborhood.

ABibleStudent

Welcome The Laser Viking, Let the CO do all the work. Just ask him simple questions, like:

Where in the Bible does it say that God/Jesus Christ commanded followers to not celebrate birthdays? Bad things happened to people on a Pharaoh's and King's birthday in Ge 40:20, Mt 14:6, and Mk 6:21, but their was no commandment to not celebrate an individual's birthday.
Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus Christ commanded followers not to accept blood transfusions? Refer to Mt 15:1-14 about what Jesus Christ said about what goes in a person's mouth. Sure early Christians wrote about abstaining from blood in Acts 15:29, but even early Jews could become clean again by following instructions in Le 17:15, and Jews today accept blood transfusions. Is the Watchtower's prohibition on whole blood transfusions for JWs adding to God's commandments?
Why didn't Jesus Christ tell his remaining disciples to shun those disciples who left him in the desert? Refer to John 6:60-70.
Why does the Watchtower teach JWs to say, "Where else shall we go?" when non-JWs ask difficult questions instead of admitting that JWs are trying to go to Jesus Christ? Refer to John 6:60-70.
Why does the Watchtower teach JWs to blindly follow the organization [Watchtower (Study Edition) Nov 2013, pg 16 - 20, paragraph 17], believe in the organization, or follow its literature, instead of God's two greatest commandments or listening to the Holy Spirit? Refer to Mt 22:24-40 and Mt 12:30-32.
Why does the Watchtower teach JWs to ask non-JWs to keep an open mind, but will not allow JWs to question the Watchtower nor its leaders instructions? Didn't Paul praise the Bereans for studying the scriptures to verify what Paul said was true? Refer to Acts 17:11.
What should I do if I believe that men are adding to or subtracting from God's commandments? Refer to Deu 4:1-2 and Mt 15:1-12

I doubt that the CO will every bother you again by asking him a few of the above questions.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

50

Freedom, Free speech, Censorship, Religion and Tight Pants

by Simon in

you would need to be living in a cave to not be aware of the turmoil happening in the world with groups like isis murdering cartoonists over their depiction of their prophet and sides being taken to either attack religion or to defend the right to practise it.. the battle lines appear to be drawn between those who believe in freedom and those who would see it curtailed to be replaced with their own version of what is and isnt acceptable.

most people want freedom and free speech but when choosing it are perhaps unconsciously judging it to only apply to things that they themselves believe in.. we need to be crystal clear what freedom and free speech were really talking about.

freedom itself is usually easier to define as there are some fundamental principles: you should be allowed to do what you want as long as you are not harming others.

ABibleStudent

Freedom has a price.

So let the price for an organization be, either qualify for tax-exempt status/charitable status and stop using undue influence on members and promoting that members use it against other members, or don't qualify for tax-exempt/charitable status.

Robert

59

How to wake up and reverse the trance???

by J-DUBBED in

how do you wake up someone taken from us by these screwed up people?.

our son was hooked by a jw at the age of 25. within 3 months they were married and we never even new about it.

he is now 29 and has nothing to do with his family(except his sister the odd time, when he needs something) of any freinds.. we are lost and have been for four years.. .

ABibleStudent

Also, it is interesting that, whilst most JWs criticize celebrating birthdays, they have no trouble celebrating wedding anniversaries which are simply "birthdays" of the wedding day.

Hi J-DUBBED, As other members have expressed, focus on improving your relationship with your son and his wife first. May be in a couple of years, you could convince your son and his wife to allow you and your wife to give your grand-daughter a present on the day before or after her birthday, or some other specifically agreed to day. There is no hurry. The WTBTS's Armageddon isn't going to happen.

If you want to plant a seed of doubt in your son using birthdays, I would say something like the following when your son's authentic persona is more dominate than his cult persona (i.e., a couple of months before or after assemblies/conventions and may be on a two week vacation from a WTBTS meeting):

Son, your mother and I would like to give our grand-daughter presents on her special day to make her feel special. We understand that as a JW you no longer believe that your daughter should celebrate birthdays by giving her presents. Where in the Bible is it written that birthdays should not be celebrated?
[Wait for your son's response.]
Since only bad things happened to two individuals on a Pharaoh's or King's birthday (i.e., Ge 40:20, Mt 14:6, and Mk 6:21) in the Bible, why does the Watchtower teach JWs that God does not want JWs to celebrate their birthdays? Are men adding to God's teachings?
[Wait for your son's response]
Wasn't Jesus Christ's birth celebrated by angels (Luke 2)? Why do Jews celebrate birthdays, and bar mitzvahs and bat barmizhs?
[Wait for your son's response]
What does the bible say in Deu 4:1-2 and Mt 15:1-10 about adding to or subtracting from God's commandments? Quickly and subtly change subjects.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

P.S. - Learn to use https://www.biblegateway.com/ to search different bibles for specific keywords/phrases. I prefer the NIV Bible.

50

Freedom, Free speech, Censorship, Religion and Tight Pants

by Simon in

you would need to be living in a cave to not be aware of the turmoil happening in the world with groups like isis murdering cartoonists over their depiction of their prophet and sides being taken to either attack religion or to defend the right to practise it.. the battle lines appear to be drawn between those who believe in freedom and those who would see it curtailed to be replaced with their own version of what is and isnt acceptable.

most people want freedom and free speech but when choosing it are perhaps unconsciously judging it to only apply to things that they themselves believe in.. we need to be crystal clear what freedom and free speech were really talking about.

freedom itself is usually easier to define as there are some fundamental principles: you should be allowed to do what you want as long as you are not harming others.

ABibleStudent

Now if only we could agree who decides what the good and bad ideas are ...

Many democratic governments will not regulate what a person believes, but will regulate a person's actions. An organization on the other hand is incapable of believing or thinking. Why should governments allow leaders of an organization - especially appointed leaders and not freely elected - to use undue influence on its members to manipulate them to adhere to the beliefs of its leaders. At least allow individuals to freely choose to follow or not follow the ideas/practices of an organization's leaders.

Robert

59

How to wake up and reverse the trance???

by J-DUBBED in

how do you wake up someone taken from us by these screwed up people?.

our son was hooked by a jw at the age of 25. within 3 months they were married and we never even new about it.

he is now 29 and has nothing to do with his family(except his sister the odd time, when he needs something) of any freinds.. we are lost and have been for four years.. .

ABibleStudent

Hi J-DUBBED, Keep it simple and proceed very slowly with your son and his wife. Let your son do all the work trying to prove to you that the WTBTS has the truth. All you need to do is ask him simple questions to reach his authentic persona. The best thing is to listen to what your son says. Take your time, read information from cult-exit counselors like Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults, and Beliefs"), make your plans with your wife, practice with your wife, and then little by little ask your son simple questions.

If you ask questions, your wife should listen to what your son says (or secretly record it with your cell phone) and then you can plan what to say to your son the next time. The most important thing is to let your son do most of the talking and do not explode at him. Yes, the WTBTS is full of BS, but telling your son that will not help him.

The WTBTS has taught JWs though-stopping platitudes, like "Where else shall we go?" Learn to overcome those thought-stopping platitudes within a few seconds, like "Don't you mean to whom shall you go? Simon-Peter said to Jesus Christ in John 6:68-69. What else has the WTBTS interpreted differently from the Bible?" At first occasionally overcome thought-stopping platitudes that your son uses. Overtime when your son's authentic persona uses a thought-stopping platitude, overcome it more frequently.

Also, read the thread by Billy the Ex-Bethelite thread exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed. After your relationship with your son has improved a lot, use Billy's methods when you want to ask really controversial questions of your son like "This guy I know thinks that the Watchtower are a dangerous cult, because JWs will not independently examine their own faith as they preach others do and critically think for themselves. JWs are hypocrites for telling non-JWs to keep an open mind when they won't do the same."

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

59

How to wake up and reverse the trance???

by J-DUBBED in

how do you wake up someone taken from us by these screwed up people?.

our son was hooked by a jw at the age of 25. within 3 months they were married and we never even new about it.

he is now 29 and has nothing to do with his family(except his sister the odd time, when he needs something) of any freinds.. we are lost and have been for four years.. .

ABibleStudent

Hi J-DUBBED, Don't send your son any videos, books, or information about dangerous cults until he asks for your help!! I know that it sucks that there is no magic pill to awaken your son, but that is the reality of the situation. Talk with a professional, like Steven Hassan, if you want to improve your chances and reduce your frustrations. It will cost you though.

If you cannot afford professional help, just learn and practice as much as you can about empowering his authentic persona to critically think for himself and what to say to reach his authentic persona and how to turn-off his cult persona. Focus on controlling your emotions and actions to improve your relationship with your son. Your goal is to help your son critically think for himself. The more opportunities that you have to ask him simple questions about how does he feel and listen to his answers: the better.

I hope that you post more threads asking about what to do, and talk with someone about your frustrations so that you do not explode at your son or his wife.

Best of wishes.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

P.S. - If you want to become politically active and possibly help your son, please read the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/49120004/revise-tax-code-protect-children-from-sexual-abuse?size=10&page=1

2

Change.org petition - JW

by thedepressedsoul in

not sure if anyone saw this but i just came across a change.org petition that already has a good amount of followers.. just thought i'd share!

not sure if anyone else has seen it.

https://www.change.org/p/launch-an-investigation-to-determine-if-jehovah-s-witnesses-have-a-right-to-use-coercion-forms-of-mental-torture-to-force-its-members-not-to-leave.

ABibleStudent

If you sign this petition, why not also write to Representative Jackie Speier and your Congressional Representatives to revise the U.S. Tax Code as written about in http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/49120004/revise-tax-code-protect-children-from-sexual-abuse?size=10&page=2 . The proposed bill would encourage tax-exempt organizations to pro-actively protect children from sexual abuse and prohibit them from using undue influence, which would include promoting acts of shunning.

Suspending an organization's tax-exempt status for non-compliance means a lot to organizations like the WTBTS.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

59

How to wake up and reverse the trance???

by J-DUBBED in

how do you wake up someone taken from us by these screwed up people?.

our son was hooked by a jw at the age of 25. within 3 months they were married and we never even new about it.

he is now 29 and has nothing to do with his family(except his sister the odd time, when he needs something) of any freinds.. we are lost and have been for four years.. .

ABibleStudent

Hi J-DUBBED, If you and your wife can control your emotions and actions and change your thinking, you might be able to improve your relationship with your son. If you read Steven Hassan's books, you will learn that cult members have an authentic persona and cult persona. Your daughter-in-law was indoctrinated just like your son. The problem is the WTBTS - not JWs!

The key to helping your son is to empower his authentic persona so that he can start to critically think for himself again. It will be easier to have a relationship with your son by empowering your son's and his wife's authentic persona. You need to socialize with them doing fun activities where they might be able to meet more non-JWs.

Even your daughter-in-law has an authentic persona. Unfortunately, her authentic persona may be controlling, but you will not know until you ask her simple questions and get to know her.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

59

How to wake up and reverse the trance???

by J-DUBBED in

how do you wake up someone taken from us by these screwed up people?.

our son was hooked by a jw at the age of 25. within 3 months they were married and we never even new about it.

he is now 29 and has nothing to do with his family(except his sister the odd time, when he needs something) of any freinds.. we are lost and have been for four years.. .

ABibleStudent

Hi J-DUBBED, The links work fine for me in Goggle Chrome. You may need to check your browsers security settings. Go to www.freedomofmind.com, click on the media link in the top menu bar, and then click on Video Archive to find the video, which is 5th from the top.

If you are financially secure, you can also talk with Steve Hassan or one of his counselors by calling Phone: 617 396-4638.

If you are on a budget, you will need to do a lot of reading, practicing, asking for help on specific topics on JWN, and asking your son simple questions to help him critically think for himself. It will take time (years), but he may wake-up. The first step is spend as much time not taking about religion, but reconnecting with his authentic persona and asking how he feels.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

59

How to wake up and reverse the trance???

by J-DUBBED in

how do you wake up someone taken from us by these screwed up people?.

our son was hooked by a jw at the age of 25. within 3 months they were married and we never even new about it.

he is now 29 and has nothing to do with his family(except his sister the odd time, when he needs something) of any freinds.. we are lost and have been for four years.. .

ABibleStudent

Hi J-DUBBED, It sounds like your son's weakness is his daughter. Have you contacted your son's ex-girl friend and told her about cult-exit counselors such as Steve Hassan's methods for helping someone to critically think for themselves as well as not going off on tangents when feeling cognitive dissonance. At least send your grand-daughter's mother the following video by Steven Hassan so that she can help her daughter to critically think for herself: Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23) .

Best of wishes helping your family members.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert