Posts by Essan

98

Do you believe the "Conscious Class" will be saved? (CHRISTIANS ONLY)

by brotherdan in

there are thousands of people sill trapped in the organization that realize that it cannot be what it claims to be: god's only true organization.

but do you think that these ones that still believe in christ and his crucifixtion will still be saved?

after all, salvation does not come from an organization.

Essan

I think if anyone actually respects the Bible and has studied it without the Society blinkers, then it would be very hard for them to live as a 'true Christian' while associating with the Org. and that, ironic as it sounds to JW's, such "conscious" ones would be much freer to actually be a think and act like a true Christian among non-JW Christians. IMO, the only reason to stay, for such ones, is if they can't bear the price of leaving in terms of losing friends and family.

Otherwise, anyone "conscious" who wanted to be able to live in Christian freedom in the way Jesus and the NT writers actually recommended would be best advised high-tale it out of the Org.

Slimboyfat said: But some of the worst JW teaching come out of the Bible. What's the point of ditching JW beliefs but holding on to the Bible?

Ah, but do there really come from the Bible, or are 99% of them just strained interpretation, easily shown to be false when exposed to people who really know the Bible and aren't indoctrinated by the Org? I'd suggest it's the latter.

14

Bane MadJW and other apologist please justify ......................

by cantleave in

in light of the following scripture:-.

there are six things that jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things detestable to his soul: lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding innocent blood, a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.

- (proverbs 6:16-19).

Essan

Sometimes I'm just stunned that I ever believed this JW horsepap. Now I truly know brainwashing and mind-control are real cos, damn, I KNOW I'm smarter than that. And yet.....

91

Do you REALLY believe Ezekiel laid seige to a brick 390 days?

by Terry in

in ezekiel the 4th chapter one of the most ludicrous passages in the bible tells us god commanded his prophet ezekiel to lie on his left side in a mock seige against a.....brick!

for how long?

390 days!.

Essan

He was a Worshipper of Jehovah....so I'm afraid he may well have laid siege to a brick for over a year.

Actually, the brick was discovered in a recent archaeological dig. It had an inscription on the side which said:

"You don't have to be crazy to lay siege to a brick for 430 days because a mean old man in the sky told you to....but it helps"

11

Can someone please explain to me...

by MrFreeze in

... what joseph's brothers have to do with generations overlapping?

in the final dc talk they use joseph's brothers to indicate overlapping generations.

does anybody have any clue what that has to do with the generations in matthew?

Essan

If they claim it means "generation" as used in reference to Joseph and his brothers (what a ridiculous idea), then I wonder what the age difference was between the oldest and youngest of Joseph's brothers of their "generation" and if this can be reconciled with the ages of the anointed today. I'd bet it still won't buy them much time, if it hasn't run out already. Not that JW's are really paying attention anyway. Why would they? The 'Generation' will be changed again next week, and the end pushed back further - ever further.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

Essan

Djeggnog said: "Jehovah's Witnesses have to be very careful that we don't get a little self-righteous and say things like, they're just Baptists, Pentecostals or Lutherans, and feel that they're not worth the trouble to preach to them because they are diehard trinitarians and won't listen to the message we are preaching."

Sage advice. Yet only a few lines earlier you rebuffed a reasonable and polite request for a straight JW answer to a doctrinal question with these words:

I suppose I could, but I'm going to have to say "No," for I'm not inclined to do so for the sake of these Pentecostal Pastors with whom I hold nothing theologically with them!

The ironic thing is, you have the air of someone who confidently believes they are skillfully getting away unnoticed with being a monumental bloviating blowhard.

But as my young nephew might say, "Dude, you are sooooo busted'. :)

146

How the TRINITY covers up the murder of Jehovah

by Terry in

jehovah is one of the most colorful personalities in history!.

he is mighty, awe-inspiring, violent, whimsical, repenting of having even created man--yet, capable of bargaining with the likes of lot and stopping the literal-minded abram from stabbing his own isaac to death as a sacrifice.. jehovah flies into a rage and wipes out thousands in a heartbeat, sends she-bears to tear children apart, drowns millions of men, women, children and pregnant women in a worldwide flood---but, champions one family of 8.. this same super-deity walks in the garden of eden in the breezy part of the day, wrestles with jacob all night and can only manage to get away by crippling him!

jehovah leads the children of israel to freedom out of egypt and yet opens up the earth and swallows up many of the same people when moses delays returning from sinai and they slip into their old ways.. what a character!

Essan

Thetrueone "Interesting so your deity in self description is nothing......not trying to be smug ?"

Sorry to interrupt, but something being "unfathomable, detached and imperious, indifferent and nothing man could relate to in any way" doesn't make it "nothing". The same could be said about the weird quantum universe within which we - to borrow a phrase - "live and move and exist" (Acts 17:28) and yet it's very definitely there, in fact, it's what we are. It's not nothing, and neither would a God be who had the attributes Terry mentions. It just wouldn't be the God humans generally imagine - but then, we are pretty limited.

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Essan

JWs get all flustered when they are asked to explain exactly what that good news is

And the irony is, the JW's aren't even preaching the same "good news" that Jesus instructed and that the 1st C Christians preached. They are preaching "another good news" (and we all know what Paul said about people who did that, don't we? Gal 1:8,9).

270

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

who are the false prophets today.

by barbara anderson.

in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.

Essan

Seeing as that article brother Quack - how appropriate - enbush wrote absolutely failed to refute the accusation that the Society is a False Prophet, the very best it could hope to achieve is to basically say "Well if we are, they are too!".

Truly pathetic.

Actually there is no doubt whatsoever that the Society is a False Prophet as they have explicitly condemned themselves as such:

"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).

"For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Matt 12:37.

146

How the TRINITY covers up the murder of Jehovah

by Terry in

jehovah is one of the most colorful personalities in history!.

he is mighty, awe-inspiring, violent, whimsical, repenting of having even created man--yet, capable of bargaining with the likes of lot and stopping the literal-minded abram from stabbing his own isaac to death as a sacrifice.. jehovah flies into a rage and wipes out thousands in a heartbeat, sends she-bears to tear children apart, drowns millions of men, women, children and pregnant women in a worldwide flood---but, champions one family of 8.. this same super-deity walks in the garden of eden in the breezy part of the day, wrestles with jacob all night and can only manage to get away by crippling him!

jehovah leads the children of israel to freedom out of egypt and yet opens up the earth and swallows up many of the same people when moses delays returning from sinai and they slip into their old ways.. what a character!

Essan

Terry: The TRINITY is a scheme; a successful and inept bit of poetry cum philosophy literally ENFORCED upon semi-rational people hard enough for them to experience the outrageous cognitive dissonance of complete faith in the unexplainable!

I don't think that can be substantiated, seeing as Trinities arose all over the world in very different cultures and often without any evidence of being enforced - therefore it doesn't necessarily follow that the Christian Trinity was enforced. It seems to arise fairly naturally and there may be all sorts of reasons for that.

Incidentally, I was raised as a JW and when I left I openmindedly gave the trinitarians a shot a explaining their position Scripturally. I was more impressed that I thought I would be and my eventual conclusion was the the NT is totally ambiguous on this matter and so both views are Scripturally 'justified'. If God exists and is responsible for writing the NT then clearly he doesn't really care whether people recognize the exact nature of his being or not, otherwise he'd have been much more clear.

The Trinity may simply be a reasonable response to Scriptural ambiguity and an attempt to harmonize apparently conflicting verses, made all the more easy by the fact that Trinities were a cultural norm among many peoples anyway and adopted precisely because it didn't require much forcing to be accepted.

59

Question for Titus

by Albert Einstein in

jw
friends

titus, you today made a statement regarding an essential wt doctrine: .

i am an active jw.. can i tell you what that doctrine is?.

bullshit!.

Essan

Hi Titus, first of all, I think you should definitely stay. :)

Secondly, I think the point in the previous post about possibly going to prison was that the Society's position on it changed, and had he gone to prison because the Society insisted he couldn't do otherwise, it would have been for something the society NOW says is OK, it would have been for nothing. Just as the many deaths of people who were told vaccines were 'satanic' and wrong, and that organ transplants were wrong, that hemophiliac medicine, all blood, and now just some blood is wrong... all those deaths and all that suffering (including, for instance, the murders and persecutions of JW's in Malawi) were unnecessary because the Society has changed it's view on those things since - despite falsely claiming each time they changed their minds that it was GOD's standard they were proclaiming and that to go against it meant disfellowshipping and death at God's hands.

Often, 'new light', comes only after many thousands have suffered or died UNNECESSARILY because of the man-made 'old light'