Posts by Essan

11

Popular Music

by alice.in.wonderland in

the thread about my avatar disappeared.

i think my avatar picture is harmless, but i did say earlier the gothic witch possibly gets back to music i listened to as a teenager.

associated imagery is as follows:.

Wow. I saw that the title of the Slayer song was 'Consfearacy', but I just now realized that it says "Christ Illusion" on the top right on the video graphic too! So both Alice's alternate Usernames are from Slayer songs? Maybe one is the album name and the other a track name.

128

"High-Control Groups"

by Consfearacy in

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions-to-jehovahs-witnesses.php .

"it is important to understand that in most bible-based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.

it is the sense that the group is god's true people, a feeling cultivated by techniques of mind control.

Essan

Wow, Mythbuster, well spotted.

"Alice"/"Consfearacy"/"Christ Illusion", the occult, witch, smoking and crucifix avatared, Theosophy defending, Slayer promoting, multiple personality is certainly the weirdest JW 'loyalist' and Society defender I have ever come across.

She's so deeply weird and contradictory, I think I may actually be starting to like her. LOL

But it will have to be a love / hate thing, and I'll have to work the ratio out later

128

"High-Control Groups"

by Consfearacy in

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions-to-jehovahs-witnesses.php .

"it is important to understand that in most bible-based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.

it is the sense that the group is god's true people, a feeling cultivated by techniques of mind control.

Essan

Alice/Consfearacy said: "I haven't claimed to a "true" Christian, I've just logically engaged different ones here and indicated you can find true Christians in any given Kingdom Hall. You claim to be a "true" Bible based Christian...."

Can you quote me on that and provide a reference to where I claimed it? Thanks. Otherwise this is a false comparison to try to make between us in an attempt paint yourself as a humble scholar and myself as boastful.

But on that subject, you - as "Christ Illusion" - did make a claim over at Topix recently, as you derided another poster: "You're here as a malignant negative force and I'm here as an enlightening positive force" were your exact words.

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/TA7ER317CCO79K6RH/p2

Hmm. So apparently you do think rather highly of yourself.

You continue: "at the same time you condemn the disfellowshipping arrangement. This is God's arrangement, not mans."

I never condemned the arrangement as described in the Bible. I condemn the JW's disfellowshipping policy because it does not abide by the Scriptural arrangement and goes way "beyond what is written". There is a difference - a vast difference - between the BIBLE's "disfellowshipping arrangement" and the one the JW's practice. They're not the same at all. The unscriptural and cruel JW practice of disfellowshipping is man's, not God's. Start a thread on this and we can show you how.

You said: Those that have rejected God and have miserably failed manipulate this arrangement to a made man “sanction” as you say for self-serving purposes.

Wow. You really said it yourself. This sentence is completely correct, when applied to the Society. They have indeed manipulated and twisted this arrangement for "self-serving purposes" as a sanction to thought-control members, to hold their family and friends 'hostage' as leverage and to prevent their lies and errors from being exposed. It's sick and wholly unscriptural.

128

"High-Control Groups"

by Consfearacy in

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions-to-jehovahs-witnesses.php .

"it is important to understand that in most bible-based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.

it is the sense that the group is god's true people, a feeling cultivated by techniques of mind control.

Essan

Consfearacy said: "Essan didn't give me a smack down. "

LOL. I really did.

You don't like to admit losing a debate do you? But to be fair I certainly wasn't the only one. Your arguments were thoroughly debunked by at least half a dozen posters over two threads. It was an absolute rout and I was amazed to hear you spin this defeat here over at Topix as you supposedly "destroying" our counter-arguments. They didn't believe you there either though, "Christ Illusion". You also claimed there that Simon banned you because he "couldn't handle the truth" rather than because you were caught lying to people who know the workings and practices of the Society much better than yourself and who have done so for much longer.

Consfearacy said: "Essan didn't give me a smack down. He believes all of Christendom's churches are apostate, the great harlot in Revelation and true Christians are hidden and scattered abroad. Ask the St Anne if she agrees. No-one else believes that as all Christians here respect their church as gospel truth. Essan is a fraud."

And it's hilarious that you attempt to deflect from the "smack down" comment Palm made - which evidently really got to you - by immediately referring to something TOTALLY off topic but which you hope will sow dissent and somehow get people to turn on me. "He believes..." you say, as if it's somehow relevant, and then you misrepresent my beliefs in hope of making them seem controversial. Truly pathetic.
I'm quite happy to explain what I believe the Scriptures say. I don't need you to misrepresent for me, thanks.
I believe that JW's are just another Christian(ish) religion and are part of 'Christendom'. Nothing special, only really distinguished by their prominent role as a "False Prophet". I believe that the Scriptures clearly indicate that the foretold Apostasy which would swamp Christianity would continue right up until the End. Seeing as the end has not happened, I believe their can be no one "True Religion", no one pure Christian denomination today acting solely as "God's Organization". I think the visible organizations are pretty irrelevant man-made entities, Scripturally speaking, and that the "Body of Christ" is a spiritual body crossing denominational lines, and that true Christians worship "in spirit and truth", neither exclusively in this or that organizational "mountain". I see Christian denominations as like the congregations in Revelation, some fairly good, some not so good, some awful, such as JW's, but all flawed to varying degrees, because they are all composed of wheat and weeds to varying ratios and because as organizations they are man-made. True Christians are scattered like wheat among weeds in the "field", not only in any one denomination, and the "Master' forbids the separating of the wheat from weeds until the End. Actually, it's a fairly standard view among Christians that Christians of other denominations can also be acceptable to God so you are wrong to claim that all Christians think that only their religion is true and only their members are approved by God or can be saved. Even the once notoriously proud Catholics don't believe this.
Oh, and BTW, how am I a "fraud"? You didn't say.
See not so controversial, is it? Totally off topic of course. But then you did desperately want to switch the topic from your embarrassing "smack down".

128

"High-Control Groups"

by Consfearacy in

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions-to-jehovahs-witnesses.php .

"it is important to understand that in most bible-based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.

it is the sense that the group is god's true people, a feeling cultivated by techniques of mind control.

Essan

Q said: "Do you really want to ban all sparring partners? Would you prefer to silence all debate?"

Come on Q! That insinuation is very unfair, seeing as I have engaged in debate, at great length, on several threads with Consfearacy over the past couple of weeks. Probably more so than anyone.

I'm always happy to debate and I don't appreciate the inference that I'd like to stifle it. I love debate and I think it's a great way of exposing false reason and unsubstantiated claims. Consfearacy's arguments were, to be honest, completely destroyed in those debates, repeatedly, by a number of posters and I think that was very useful for any JW's reading to see a showcase of the evidence and the arguments so they can reach their own conclusions.

But obvious lying is not 'debate' and that is all Consfearacy had left. I don't think people who are clearly lying should be indulged or given a platform where they may mislead others. This isn't a matter of a difference of opinion or of debate.

And as Cantleave said, this particular lie is also deeply insulting to many here. What's the point defending that?

309

Who really is Michael the Archangel?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

http://www.themadjws.com/whoismichael.htm.

.

let me know what you think- for i will be adding to the info!.

Essan

Why do you think ORGianity is any better than CHURCHianity, MadJW?

ORGianity, aka

WATCHtianity, aka

SOCIanity, aka

CORPORATianity, aka

IDOLATRY of the WATCHTOWER.

The word games you play can easily be turned against the Society and it's worshippers - 'WATCHTOIDS' or "ORGOIDS" as we should perhaps call them (and maybe their religion can be called "ORGism" LOL. Lots of fun to be had with that one:)

It's all a bit silly, isn't it? And it's no substitute for a substantial argument.

128

"High-Control Groups"

by Consfearacy in

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions-to-jehovahs-witnesses.php .

"it is important to understand that in most bible-based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.

it is the sense that the group is god's true people, a feeling cultivated by techniques of mind control.

Essan

Quillskysaid : "I don't see anything in the forum rules that says one may not post JW doctrine".

Have you read the thread Quillsky?

Consfearacy wasn't criticized for posting JW doctrine, but for lying about JW practice, claiming that JW's were free to disagree with the Society within the Org. (without negative repercussions) and if such differences bothered them, they were free to leave without sanctions if that was their choice, etc. when this is absolutely false, as we all know. It's a lie. JW's are not free even to "harbour private ideas" about doctrine, never mind to openly disagree, and they are not "free" to leave if they disagree. They can leave, but not without being demonized and shunned and losing lifelong friends and even family.

Surely continual deliberate lying shouldn't be tolerated here?

36

Have You Visited JW Facts?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

for newer members.

if you haven't already done so, please visit the site and have a look around.

here are a few of my favorite pages, there:.

Essan

JWFacts is a truly awesome site.

It's the ONLY site I would consider sending a newly questioning JW to initially as there is nothing there to scare them away in those crucial early days when they are still easily spooked and are looking for any excuse to reject the 'truth about the 'Truth'' . It's also very, very comprehensive, so they don't need to feel guilty like they're trawling the internet, looking at countless 'anti-JW' or 'apostate' sites.

JWfacts is the 'red pill'. There is still lot's to learn after you take it, of course, but once you take it, the process is inevitable. :)

128

"High-Control Groups"

by Consfearacy in

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions-to-jehovahs-witnesses.php .

"it is important to understand that in most bible-based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group.

it is the sense that the group is god's true people, a feeling cultivated by techniques of mind control.

Essan

Consfearacy said: "If you do not believe the Watchtower (the faithful and discreet slave's principle means of teaching) has backing from God, you don't have to agree with anything they say. This is not enforced with sanctions and there is no one that can or does force anyone to stay in the organization."

No, as long as you are willing to lose your family and friends! You call that "freedom" or "choice"? It's the "choice" offered by a hostage taker! Agreement IS enforced with sanctions: disfellowshipping and shunning, and you know it. And for that most gross and deeply insulting deliberate lie I am going to request that the Admin. take action to restrict you because you are lying among people who know the truth and many of them who have experienced the heartbreaking consequences you even deny can occur, and for that lying insult I personally don't think you should be further tolerated or indulged. It's deeply offensive as well as totally false.

What next? Are you going to claim that sexual abuse does not occur among JW's in a place where JW abuse victims come to find support and comfort? Your present false claims are only slightly removed from this scenario. Many of us here are no longer able to have contact with family or friends simply because it was discovered that we did not agree with the Society on all matters, and you are going to lie to our faces, claiming such a thing could not and never does happen, when it happens commonly, routinely, with devastating and emotionally shattering consequences? You should be ashamed!

Consfearacy said: "You have whatever stories you can tell on the internet and I have my own direct observation."

I was a JW for over a decade longer than yourself and there are many here who have been JW's considerably longer than that. You are relatively inexperienced. That, coupled with your being a fairly obvious liar, renders your comments here meaningless.

Consfearacy said: "Anyone in the organization that was there for decades was there for a reason."

As were many here. The reason most left is that they discovered they had been lied to by the Society about many things. They stayed because they were ignorant of the truth, a truth actively hidden by the Society. They left because they discovered the truth.

12

Giving the Trinity Doctrine the Coup-De-Grace!

by wannabe in

it is the one that this world doesn't know, that must request of the father, to give the helper, the holy spirit; the spirit of the truth; then jesus tells us that the world cannot receive of the holy spirit, they neither see him or know him.

" {1 john 5:19 nlt}.

" {1 john 2:27 nlt}.

Essan

I'm agnostic about the Trinity. But even I can see that the OP obviously relies purely on circular reasoning. Their claims would easily be refuted by a Trinitarian. It's not at all the 'coup-de-grace' the author imagines it is but is very weak, logically unsound argument.

It starts with the unproven premise that Trinitarians are wrong, therefore they can't receive the Spirit, therefore they can't receive the teaching of the Spirit which would reveal the truth about it's nature, therefore Trinitarians 'must' be wrong. Circling right back to the start.

Circular reasoning. Elementary mistake.