is the doctrine of hell a hindrance or a help in witnessing?
many evangelicals are ashamed of this biblical doctrine, viewing it as a blemish to be covered up by the cosmetic of divine love.
but this dishonors gods word.
Hell Fire Question.
Would it actually be possible, according to God's laws, to burn someone forever?
Answer.
The only way the concious unrighteous could burn for all eternity is,
if they were granted Eternal Life (first) - and the bible clearly states
that Eternal Life is ONLY granted to the Righteous who accept Jesus
as Lord. John3:16 1Tim6:15-16
This is the best explanation I've ever read by some brainy person on JWN!
C
since i've been out of the jw religion, i've had no desire to attend any churches.
although i've always liked the way many churches look with the (stained glass, etc).
growing up our kh was so ugly and boring to look at.
1Robinella hi,
I do understand what you are saying. For me ... not so sure it is a closeness to Jesus/God I'm looking for, or smiles and human connection. Maybe both.
Feels like there are so many new thoughts floating around in my head. New ways of approaching things now and I need help to herd all these little gems into one place!
Whatever I do or wherever I go, all I know for sure is this:
A. that I don't want a collection plate stuck under my nose.
B. do not want to be hounded to do anything.(other than what I volunteer for).
c. need to have beautiful inspiring music.
d. prayers and teaching must not be in 'old english'
e. prayers and teaching must be genuine and upbuilding
f. the whole room must exude warmth and inclusion
g. no door to door preaching.
h. cliques are discouraged.
i. all are treated equally
j. no punishment if I stop.
This may take awhile!
clarity
think of all the unintended negative effects of the changes.. the "generation".
axing the book study.. (you can add to the list).
all the changes are to enforce control over the sheeples.. as far as i can see they are alienating the flock.. elderly ones devastated because they are having to face their mortality.. the social isolation since the bs was removed from homes.. each change they have brought in has isolated and estranged the very ones who trusted this organisation.. like hitler in 1941, he did not realise that the war had already turned against him.. (interestingly, how many of the new uber gibbering buddy are of german descent - is there a connexion with their new mantra of "tohtahles obedientz"?).
Belbab hello again,
Your comment about the German influence on the structure of the watchtower org seems to be backed up by information on the site, Secret Jehovahs Witness Legal Case page 4 of 4 ..... sorry tried to download site but?... Here's the gist of it:
"In 1935 Judge Rutherford sent Anton Koerber on a special mission to Germany and Russia. Koerber's mission was to regain possession of the Watchtower Society's printing presses seized by the German government, and to have the presses shipped to Russia, where Koerber was to open branch office. However, Anton Koerber failed at each assigned task."
>
On a side note, dear Belbab, just want to say I hear your angst regarding comments at AGM, about the faithful older bros and sisters being written off as murmerers ... just like the unfaithful Israelites...complaining. Bloody cheek eh !!!..I'm sorry you went through that. I'm so very sorry I did too; and dear Johnson and millions of other humble, hardworking, gullable people. I'm sick about it.
When will the GB ever be sorry? After all those years, tramping door to door, dragging sick & tired kids to all those meetings. Don't worry about buying a Home or saving for your old age or appropriately educating your children and making sure their teeth are cared for!!!!!
I agree completely with the comment made that the society is so lucky that's all the over 60 are doing. Murmering my butt! They ARE so lucky they don't (as yet) have a class action lawsuit against them for all the damage their LIES have caused! Oh, was I yelling......whoops.
clarity
we all talk about the negatives about the ugly face of the watchtower that i thought i would start a 'happy' thread.. what are some of your favorite non-wt quotes?.
here's a good one to start:.
you cannot be, i know, nor do i wish to see you, an inactive spectator.
"You don't learn to hold your own in the world by standing on guard, .. but by attacking, and getting well-hammered yourself" George Bernard Shaw
"Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." Henry David Thoreau
"I knew what my job was; it was to go out and meet the people and love them..." Diana, Princess of Wales
clarity
okay, this is a subjective choice of scriptures but i'm throwing them out here for discussion.
what do these texts tell us about jesus?
remember, this is jesus in his own words!.
Ding......
Thank you for reminding me....aahhh, switching the brain over can be so hard sometimes!
"Gone are the days when we had a "faithful and discreet slave organization" to do our thinking for us and give us the one "right answer."
thank you thank you
clarity
1 cor 15:51 says that our mortal bodies will be changed.
by giving up or taking off the physical body.
no.. not taking off ... but putting on incorruption and immortality.
This link should work!
http://www.jwinfoline.com/Documents/Heaven/why_does_wt_teach_no_humans_in_heaven.htm
1 cor 15:51 says that our mortal bodies will be changed.
by giving up or taking off the physical body.
no.. not taking off ... but putting on incorruption and immortality.
1 Cor 15:51 says that our mortal bodies will be changed. How? By giving up or taking off the physical body. No.
Not taking off ... but putting ON incorruption and immortality. Putting ON is the opposite of taking OFF.
"The Watchtower's key biblical passage that they use to "prove" their teaching that those who enter heaven must give up their physical bodies, is 1 Corinthians 15:50, "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption." The Watchtower teaches that this means that physical man cannot enter heaven. But let's have a closer look at this passage. Do you see that in this passage that corruption is equated to flesh and blood and incorruption is equated to the kingdom of God? Wouldn't that mean that these corruptible mortal bodies of ours that are subject to death and decay cannot possess the kingdom of God in this mortal state?
How will these mortals be changed?
The next few verses clarify what must happen to these mortal bodies to qualify them for heaven. 1 Corinthians 15:51 says that the dead will be raised incorruptible and that we shall be changed. How are these mortal bodies to be changed? Is it by giving up or taking off the physical body as the Watchtower teaches? Verses 53 declares that this corruptible or mortal body must put on incorruption and immortality. Do you see that it says the mortal must put on immortality? Putting on immortality is putting on eternal life so that the mortal body is changed to a body that will never die. Do you see that putting on is the opposite of taking off ? Instead of teaching that one must give up their humanity to enter heaven, this passage teaches just the opposite. This passage agrees with Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."
www.jwinfoline.com/documents/heaven/pf_wt_teach_n
Does anyone else find it comforting that according to these scriptures, there is a distinct possibility that we would not have to give up our Humanity in order to enter Heaven?
clarity
any body care to add their own ideas?
imagine if god gave the gb the authority to rule the whole earth and everyone in it, right now, the same way they govern jw's, what the heck would that be like?.
after the temporary euphoria wore off (should last a good two minutes or so), the gb (or whatever they're calling themselves now) would have much to do.
Wrong way, Poopsiecakes, thenoblelodge, miseryloveselders, Sapphy, OUTLAW, Gregor, mrsjones5, blondie, snowbird, Nathan Natas, Cameo-d, Alwayshere, VampireDCLXV, StAnn, Gayle. Thank you all for your participation here today, great thoughts, brilliant pictures and a big dose of reality.
clarity
hi hairy .... can't wait to hear your story and .....what you got!!
btw, are you related to billygoatgruff?.
clarity.
Hi Hairy .... can't wait to hear your story and .....what you got!! BTW, are you related to Billygoatgruff?
clarity
how did satan tempt a person who has no wrong desires?.
OUTLAW .... you just make my day with your sense of humour. Where do you find those jokey pics??
What would we do without you...........from one BCer to another! c (best I could do!)
