Posts by rawe

8

My Favorite Scriptures When I'm Fearful

by Perry in

isaiah 41:13 esvfor i, the lord your god, hold your right hand; it is i who say to you, fear not, i am the one who helps you.. .

proverbs 3:5-6 esv trust in the lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.. .

rawe

Hi Perry,

While I'm an atheist and don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, I continue to read it regularily and some of verses still resonate with me. Here are a few...

Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. - Hebrews 11:1

Many times you'll see comments disparaging faith. Certainly where 'faith' stands in for belief in the highly unlikely, maybe even harmful, then I too would say that I don't admire such faith. But here faith is connected to "hope" and belief in what is "real." Thus I feel that hope and belief in something that is likely real -- but just out of reach for the moment -- is important. I see it in my work as a software engineer. Much of my work is not creating new software as much as it is hunting down bugs in existing systems. Having a sort of unshakable faith that logic will prevail and given enough time and energy any bug can be teased out into the open and understood and solved.

The senseless one has said in his heart: "There is no Jehovah." They have acted ruinously, they have acted detestably in [their] dealing. There is no one doing good. - Psalms 14:1 (repeated as Psalms 53).

True, this verse calls atheists such as myself 'senseless' (a 'fool' in other translations). But using it as a mere put down misses some important conclusions the next words speak to -- doing good and avoiding acting ruinously and being destestable in our dealings. I have little doubt the Psalmist literally means a real existing Creator God when he says "Jehovah." However, I don't think it is going too far afield to read this verse as "There is no moral authority" and then think about where denial of such would lead. So I see myself, even as an atheist, continuing to "seek Jehovah" (verse 2) in the sense of continuing to look for insight and find the best way forward in terms of how to act towards myself and others.

Will Jehovah be pleased with thousands of rams, with tens of thousands of torrents of oil? Shall I give my firstborn son for my revolt, the fruitage of my belly for the sin of my soul? 8 He has told you, O earthling man, what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God - Micah 6:8

Bible writers truly reach wonderful conclusions at certain points! Perhaps even reflecting on what they saw as misguided approaches to worship in others. In this case making great sacrifices. How much better off would the world be if all that we committed to do religious or not was to "exercise justice", "love kindness" and "be modest"?

Of course they are many others -- such as how Proverbs opens up with the focus on gaining wisdom and how important that is, etc.

Cheers,

-Randy

41

If You Were A Bro(tm) Did You Enjoy The Prestiage Of Giving A Talk? Do You Miss It?

by LoisLane looking for Superman in

jw
friends

i was a sister(tm).

i was only allowed to give talks to my householder.. you brother's(tm), all eyes were on you.. what was that like?.

did you enjoy it?.

rawe

Hi LoisLane,

I found giving parts pretty nerve wracking upto the point of starting, but if I was well prepared I felt good about it, especially when it was done! I can still recall vividly some of the parts, especially one funeral talk I gave for a pre-mature baby that died at 9 days.

After leaving the faith I had the truly odd experience of two individuals who left the faith ahead of me tell me that something I had said during The Watchtower review of the circuit assembly made them think that perhaps being a Witness wasn't for them. It went this way. The Watchtower made the point the 'law' was a 'tutor' leading to Christ and in ancient times a 'tutor' was one who lead the student on the path to the teacher. Furthermore, the Jews had failed to appreciate this role of the law, but instead hung on to it.

I thought that was kind of a neat idea. So I said... you know what it is like when your child first goes to school. Afterwards you'll ask your child how their day had gone and make sure not to leave out any details. So they start by telling you they got on the bus, the bus stopped several times to pick up additional students, then finally the bus got to school and the students got off, then the bus went to the bus garage stayed there for the day, then... "Wait... did you not get off the bus?" "Those Jews needed to get off that bus... I concluded." Although I really wasn't trying to make a joke the illustration got a fairly hearty chuckle from the audience. But for my two, now ex-JW friends, it was apparently an epiphany moment when they realized... "I need to get off THIS BUS!"

Cheers,

-Randy

45

If anyone is interested in my 'Coming out' video on Youtube....

by Newly Enlightened in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hx5mghrvbs.

rawe

Hi Kim,

Very much enjoyed your video! I like how you answered the question of "why make a video?" When some Witnesses raise that objection there is this implication that somehow it is wrong for former members to express themselves. How ironic! A faith that teach it's members to invade the private lives of people in a door-to-door fashion should be the very last ones to suggest others should not be allowed to express themselves. I also liked your point about the Reasoning Book. Indeed, I think few leave the organization because they've stumbled on material from sites like jwfacts.com. Rather the story you hear time and again is the very material produced by The Watchtower Society creates concern. Or the actions of leaders or others in the faith. It is only after the internal search fails that folks tend to finally give themselves permission to look outside. It is then that sites like jwfacts.com and others give the seeker the confidence they are not crazy or alone in the doubts about the faith.

I'm sorry to hear local elders decided to slander you and your husband, simply because you've decided you can no longer believe what Witnesses believe. Of course we appreciate this is one clear sign the doctrine of the faith is really not solidly based. Instead fear and intimitation tactics are used in place of direct honesty -- sad really. Many good people are in the faith, alas the leadership does not treat them with honor.

If ever you are in the Phoenix/Chandler, AZ area -- look up our meetup groups (one on meetup.com and the other on groupspaces.com). It is nice to meet with follow ex-Witnesses face to face.

Cheers,

-Randy

304

Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

rawe

Hi Everyone,

fwiw: I self-identify as an atheist, but...

I believe God does exist, within the minds of believers and often as a shared cultural experience/concept within groups.

I believe it is impossible to prove the non-existence of something, thus I would not claim I can prove God does not exist.

I believe that if God does exist, is a law-of-nature-breaker-miracle-worker and interactive with our world, then knowledge, any knowledge, even in principal, is beyond what we can reach.

As an atheist, I do exactly what I want. Just turns out I want to do things, like work, be loyal, not steal or lie, etc.

Cheers,

-Randy

97

Did Jesus really exist?

by slimboyfat in

i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

" initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

rawe

Hi Ismael,

"Book of Matthew describes a series of very extraordinary events, including massive earthquakes followed by a darkness covering the land."

My view is it is more likely than not that a real person name Jesus was the inspiration for the religion of Christianity. Indeed your argument is a good one against some of the more extraordinary events of the gospels being actual real events that affected a large population. On the other hand the more modest view of the historical Jesus would make for a very small target in terms of history. To wit he was active for only 3 1/2 years and had direct impact/contact with a few fervent believers.

Cheers,

-Randy

97

Did Jesus really exist?

by slimboyfat in

i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

" initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

rawe

Hi Ismael,

"Even more extravagant is how Matthew also describes dead people rising from their graves and roaming the streets."

Unless I'm mistaken the official Witness belief on this event is not that dead people rose in terms of a ressurection. Rather they believe the earthquake caused graves to open and expose the corpse of the dead individual.

Cheers,

-Randy

ps. I found your written English to be excellent.

22

Evolution vs. God

by Perry in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0u3-2cgomq&list=plimax6whtnhc34_zbxbtcgvgvgxk3qzvu.

rawe

Hi Designs,

"Perry rarely responds."

Oh, okay. That will make it difficult to understand how Perry processes the "were you there?" line of argument. I'll assume, he posts this video because he feels it communicates an important message.

Cheers,

-Randy

97

Did Jesus really exist?

by slimboyfat in

i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

" initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

rawe

Hi Slimboyfat,

I am not schooled well enough in the arguments to comment too much one way or the other. However, for the moment, I believe a literal person named Jesus likely existed and was the inspiration for Christianity later filled out and defined by Paul. I think many of the stories about him in the NT go beyond the literally true for religious/prophetic reasons (such as his birth in Bethlehem, move to Egypt, etc).

To me a story of an inspiring rabbi who talked about the Kingdom of God, but then got himself killed by the Romans, is more economical than early Christian using pure invention to create his character. In the modern world we also generally see people follow real-person living Christ-like characters, such as Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, Vernon Howell (David Koresh) and Sun Myung Moon. If we had more examples of Paul-like leaders creating mythical Christ-like characters to follow, I would tilt my views in that direction.

Cheers,

-Randy

22

Evolution vs. God

by Perry in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0u3-2cgomq&list=plimax6whtnhc34_zbxbtcgvgvgxk3qzvu.

rawe

Hi AndDontCallMeShirley,

Perry hasn't responded, which is okay. But I would like to explore the idea of observation as it applies to the theory of evolution, science in general and religious experience and teachings. I believe there are key reasons tied to observation why the comment was "65 million" and not some other number. Most things we know relate to the past.

I don't mind the "were you there?" question if asked sincerely. It can be a starting point. So... how can we get "there?" The "there?" is not even just about time it can be about size or distance. How do we know about atoms, electrons, etc? How do we know the landscape of Mars when we have not personally been there?

Cheers,

-Randy

22

Evolution vs. God

by Perry in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0u3-2cgomq&list=plimax6whtnhc34_zbxbtcgvgvgxk3qzvu.

rawe

Hi Perry,

I have to run off to work, so I only got to 3:26. I have a question, if you don't mind.

The interviewer objects to comments about "65 million years ago" on the basis of "it cannot be observed." My question is this: Do you think what _has_ been observed put no constraints on the years-ago-comment? In other words, do you think the comment could just as easily been "65 billion years ago..." or "65 thousand years ago..."?

Cheers,

-Randy