Hmm. Ok, I'm seeing what you're all saying. Truly it still leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. But then, for years, I've never been too keen on the bible's concept of gender roles.
Libelle
JoinedPosts by Libelle
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68
Women as weaker vessel - explain?
by Libelle inok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.
" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.
anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?
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GENDER ROLES & THE ANNOINTED
by palmtree67 ini was thinking further about this because of the many "women as weaker vessels" topics posted lately and also this thread from randy:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198399/1/letter-from-an-anointed-reader-who-dad-after-33-years.
this was about an annointed woman, whose insights were outright discounted by the gb and was told to "wait" for them.. these are my thoughts:.
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Libelle
Wow. This is new information to me. Shouldn't surprise me, but it does... Also the GBis made up of mostly unmarried/never married men?? Really?
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Meeting topics that cover sex
by Libelle inoccassionally the mr will say that "some visitors are shocked because we will talk about sex, even with children in attendance.
" what exactly are they talking about in these meetings.
things like "don't masturbate" or things like if you position yourself like this, and your woman like this while having sex, then you're fornicating?.
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Libelle
Fair enough. My point is that if I walk into a bar and say to a pretty gal, "hey I'll do the dishes if you sleep with me".. this is not going to get the desire result. Thus, doing house work doesn't, in and of itself, get you laid. But i do understand being kind and thoughtful, which may include housework, can lead to the promised land.
I think as a pick-up line, for someone looking for casual sex, of course it doesn't work. But for long-term partners living together, that's a whole different ballpark, household work can make the difference between a peck on the cheek or serious romping.
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68
Women as weaker vessel - explain?
by Libelle inok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.
" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.
anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?
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Libelle
There's one thing I can't get on this forum yet, and it's how to avoind cross-posting.
I'm curious, since some of you don't like being viewed as weaker vessells, are you glad that chivarly is dead? I still open doors for ladies, let them step out of the elevator before me, I walk on the side of the sidewalk closest to traffic, I give up my seat for women on the bus at times, etc.. Does it offend you that some men still give consideration to women in these regards?
Yeah, I'm not interested in chivalry. I say the door opener shouldn't be determined by anatomy, but the person who has easier access (like if you've got your arms full, I should open the door). I don't get the sidewalk bit, The Mr. does this and it boggles my mind. ON the bus, sure give up seats to older folks, pregnant or women with wee ones.
Snowbird, just because it's a man's world, doesn't mean it should stay that way.
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68
Women as weaker vessel - explain?
by Libelle inok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.
" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.
anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?
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Libelle
Please dont shoot the messenger (meaning me)... i am only offering what i hear from the platform and offering my own little thoughts on what it means. As I say i dont think emotions are weak. And I also agree that men have many emotional triggers (football season proves that). It was a male dominated society that wrote these things and thus it is reflected in the writings of the times.
I see where you're coming from. I'm just shooting holes through the ideas, really. And truly, if we were a society that taught men that emotions are okay, they wouldn't have to reroute their entire emotional beings to something like football. It disturbs me how much some men put everything emotionally into that... Men are emotional beings, but when "not allowed" to be social norms, it comes through in rather unusual ways.
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68
Women as weaker vessel - explain?
by Libelle inok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.
" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.
anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?
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Libelle
Which is a broad stereotype about women. Not all women are emotional cripples and that definition goes quite far in explaining why women are thought to be less capable to handle such mundane tasks like handling a microphone
Damn straight, MrsJ. I know plenty of men who have "emotional weaknesses" and plenty of women who function on nothing but cold hard logic. Personally, I think the ideal is a balance of the two, not the "strong, standard male" assumption of logic-only.
1 Peter 3:7 The same goes for you husbands: Be good husbands to your wives. Honor them, delight in them. As women they lack some of your advantages. But in the new life of God's grace, you're equals. Treat your wives, then, as equals so your prayers don't run aground. MSG
MSG? What's that mean. But still the mentality with this passage is still male default, message written for and addressed to men.
OH Heaven, Once upon a time, before The Mr was entrenched, I did that with him, even as it applies to the bible... But particularly using the example of walking into a room full of women and men and saying "hey gals!" instead of "hey guys!" You, me and anyone out there knows plenty of men would object vehemently to being referred to generically as "gals" when women are just supposed to be used to being "guys" without a second thought. Anyway, those types of statements used to make an impression on the pre-JW Mr.
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68
Women as weaker vessel - explain?
by Libelle inok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.
" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.
anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?
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Libelle
Ack cross-post!
MrsJones, you're killing me here - respect the vulva! Nice.
No i dont think women are "fragile" or "weak" emotionally but since it was written by a man, from a man's point of view, i assume it was more of a statement that women let emotions influence them, as opposed to cold hard type "logic"
Hm, ok I can see this. The concept of emotions as weak always amuses me. Men have plenty of emotional triggers, too. Some men just express them differently than women do.
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68
Women as weaker vessel - explain?
by Libelle inok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.
" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.
anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?
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Libelle
The whole 'weaker vessel' thing is an attempt to keep women under control and in a second class position. There is an underlying theme of disdain for women in the Bible so religions are justified in keeping women down.
I agree. That's been my position on the bible for years, but The Mr, who's well entrenched in JWness, tells me I'm reading it all wrong.
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44
Meeting topics that cover sex
by Libelle inoccassionally the mr will say that "some visitors are shocked because we will talk about sex, even with children in attendance.
" what exactly are they talking about in these meetings.
things like "don't masturbate" or things like if you position yourself like this, and your woman like this while having sex, then you're fornicating?.
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Libelle
Well, I can't be a personal real-life example. See, I'm the one who's go-go-go, and he's the one who's more prone to saying "not tonight, dear" so I can't honestly compare.
But, truly, when he helps out with some of the more mundane chores - a little help goes a long way, IMO. The chore that is my bane is laundry, so when he helps with that, yeah, I'm more inclined to romp, but then, I'm usually always inclined to romp. But from what my women friends say, help in those matters goes a long way for their libidos.
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68
Women as weaker vessel - explain?
by Libelle inok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.
" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.
anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?
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Libelle
It means we have to dust and polish if we want to get laid...
(sorry couldn't help myself)..
hahah! Yeah, well, that's true for some couples. Me, I rarely turn down an opportunity, so long as the wild child that is our 2 year old is sufficiently contained.
I'm the same height as my husband, we're both 6'. I know I can't take him (yep, I know from experience that's he's stronger than me) but most folks don't know that.
HAHA! I like that.