Posts by Libelle

68

Women as weaker vessel - explain?

by Libelle in

ok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.

" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.

anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?

Libelle

Based on my experience, Libelle, you are definitely in the minority as far as women's attitudes are concerned. Most women today will say, "Sure I want equal rights, I want equal pay, I want to be treated like a man in every way, etc, etc, etc.." Okay, all young women in America who are turning 18 should go register with the selective service just in case the draft should ever get reinstated. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, you can hear the crickets now as these same women don't want equal responsibility.

By the way, those sorts of women are the sorts who like the freedoms and choices brought them by feminism, but in no way will call herself a feminist, lest she be marked. Me on the other hand, I am proud to be a feminist.

68

Women as weaker vessel - explain?

by Libelle in

ok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.

" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.

anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?

Libelle

WRT Divorce laws - they originated to help women back in the day (or at least these particular laws) where staying at home was the norm, and women couldn't do things like, oh have a credit card in their own name. Back in those days, women could just not do alot of what they can do now. They do still help some women as they were intended to. However, I think lately, these laws have been twisted around by opportunists and don't serve the same purposes that they used to serve. There should be much more case-by-case consideration than there is, at present.

68

Women as weaker vessel - explain?

by Libelle in

ok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.

" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.

anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?

Libelle

Damn - crossposted.

Yeah, Gary, I guess I have to suck it up and realize I'm not the norm. I'm the breadwinner, The Mr works PT from home and does alot of the day-to-day parenting heavy work. The Mr and I freely exchange nearly all household chores - with the exception of laundry for me, and since he's the contractor he does the household renovations. And he is way, way, WAY better with the kids than I am.

Yes I have heard of the ERA, and all that went down with it, I wish it had passed. And though I don't agree with the draft at all, I figure if you're going to draft, draft all abled bodied, that means including women. But I know that's just not the normal view.

Some of the women I dated in years past would not find any problem saying something along the lines of, "My goal is to find a nice man who can take good care of me." That clashes with my whole perspective of men and women being equals. Women seem to have no problem saying that around men but let a man say that around women.

Yeah, I cringe when I hear women say that. For one, they know not how badly that can bite them in the butt, and for two, um, staying home with the kids is not exactly a picnic! Also, truly, some men are better at parenting, that's just how it is. Well, from my perspective- it would be nice if more dads could stay at home. I'm all for that. I never understood the stay-at-home-spouse (sans kids) unless there's a farm or something along those lines to take care of.

Oh well, it is the culture and I've learned to that if I need to cry, I cry alone. Got to show strength at all times, you know

I'm sorry to hear that. Man, I suppose I better hush up, because in alot of ways I'm showing my privilege here. It wasn't but a few weeks into my relationship when I first saw The Mr cry, and he me - for different reasons, and we both haven't felt the need to can up our emotinos. I'm so sorry you aren't made to feel you can show your emotions. Everyone should be able to express emotions. Plus, I patently disagree with the concept that strong means emotion-free. It's just pushed somewhere else, really.

68

Women as weaker vessel - explain?

by Libelle in

ok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.

" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.

anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?

Libelle

Hmm. Ok, I'm seeing what you're all saying. Truly it still leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. But then, for years, I've never been too keen on the bible's concept of gender roles.

6

GENDER ROLES & THE ANNOINTED

by palmtree67 in

i was thinking further about this because of the many "women as weaker vessels" topics posted lately and also this thread from randy:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198399/1/letter-from-an-anointed-reader-who-dad-after-33-years.

this was about an annointed woman, whose insights were outright discounted by the gb and was told to "wait" for them.. these are my thoughts:.

Libelle

Wow. This is new information to me. Shouldn't surprise me, but it does... Also the GBis made up of mostly unmarried/never married men?? Really?

44

Meeting topics that cover sex

by Libelle in

occassionally the mr will say that "some visitors are shocked because we will talk about sex, even with children in attendance.

" what exactly are they talking about in these meetings.

things like "don't masturbate" or things like if you position yourself like this, and your woman like this while having sex, then you're fornicating?.

Libelle

Fair enough. My point is that if I walk into a bar and say to a pretty gal, "hey I'll do the dishes if you sleep with me".. this is not going to get the desire result. Thus, doing house work doesn't, in and of itself, get you laid. But i do understand being kind and thoughtful, which may include housework, can lead to the promised land.

I think as a pick-up line, for someone looking for casual sex, of course it doesn't work. But for long-term partners living together, that's a whole different ballpark, household work can make the difference between a peck on the cheek or serious romping.

68

Women as weaker vessel - explain?

by Libelle in

ok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.

" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.

anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?

Libelle

There's one thing I can't get on this forum yet, and it's how to avoind cross-posting.

I'm curious, since some of you don't like being viewed as weaker vessells, are you glad that chivarly is dead? I still open doors for ladies, let them step out of the elevator before me, I walk on the side of the sidewalk closest to traffic, I give up my seat for women on the bus at times, etc.. Does it offend you that some men still give consideration to women in these regards?

Yeah, I'm not interested in chivalry. I say the door opener shouldn't be determined by anatomy, but the person who has easier access (like if you've got your arms full, I should open the door). I don't get the sidewalk bit, The Mr. does this and it boggles my mind. ON the bus, sure give up seats to older folks, pregnant or women with wee ones.

Snowbird, just because it's a man's world, doesn't mean it should stay that way.

68

Women as weaker vessel - explain?

by Libelle in

ok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.

" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.

anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?

Libelle

Please dont shoot the messenger (meaning me)... i am only offering what i hear from the platform and offering my own little thoughts on what it means. As I say i dont think emotions are weak. And I also agree that men have many emotional triggers (football season proves that). It was a male dominated society that wrote these things and thus it is reflected in the writings of the times.

I see where you're coming from. I'm just shooting holes through the ideas, really. And truly, if we were a society that taught men that emotions are okay, they wouldn't have to reroute their entire emotional beings to something like football. It disturbs me how much some men put everything emotionally into that... Men are emotional beings, but when "not allowed" to be social norms, it comes through in rather unusual ways.

68

Women as weaker vessel - explain?

by Libelle in

ok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.

" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.

anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?

Libelle

Which is a broad stereotype about women. Not all women are emotional cripples and that definition goes quite far in explaining why women are thought to be less capable to handle such mundane tasks like handling a microphone

Damn straight, MrsJ. I know plenty of men who have "emotional weaknesses" and plenty of women who function on nothing but cold hard logic. Personally, I think the ideal is a balance of the two, not the "strong, standard male" assumption of logic-only.

1 Peter 3:7 The same goes for you husbands: Be good husbands to your wives. Honor them, delight in them. As women they lack some of your advantages. But in the new life of God's grace, you're equals. Treat your wives, then, as equals so your prayers don't run aground. MSG

MSG? What's that mean. But still the mentality with this passage is still male default, message written for and addressed to men.

OH Heaven, Once upon a time, before The Mr was entrenched, I did that with him, even as it applies to the bible... But particularly using the example of walking into a room full of women and men and saying "hey gals!" instead of "hey guys!" You, me and anyone out there knows plenty of men would object vehemently to being referred to generically as "gals" when women are just supposed to be used to being "guys" without a second thought. Anyway, those types of statements used to make an impression on the pre-JW Mr.

68

Women as weaker vessel - explain?

by Libelle in

ok, the mr. constantly rolls his eyes and tells me i just don't understand anytime any of his literature shows up with something along the lines of "women are the weaker vessel.

" apparently (at least in his own little mind), it does not mean women are these delicate, breakable, weaker things, but something else... something more subtle.

anytime he's ever explained it to me (which has been a few years, i reckon), it's come out sounding like reason for women being second class citizens... is he just putting his own spin on it?

Libelle

Ack cross-post!

MrsJones, you're killing me here - respect the vulva! Nice.

No i dont think women are "fragile" or "weak" emotionally but since it was written by a man, from a man's point of view, i assume it was more of a statement that women let emotions influence them, as opposed to cold hard type "logic"

Hm, ok I can see this. The concept of emotions as weak always amuses me. Men have plenty of emotional triggers, too. Some men just express them differently than women do.