Anyone who's ever looked into the change of leadership from Russell to Rutherford knows it was clearly a hostile takeover. He created a schism, but because he held the presidency of the corporation, his off-shoot got to keep the printing facility. In more than the usual sense, the winners got to write the history. With an obviously power-hungry oligarch at the reins, his first thought was to start usurping the authority of the board and see who would and wouldn't cower before him. Those who wouldn't, he used slimy lawyer tactics to oust. He allowed the sycophants to stay and he was the one who set the tone for the JWs do this day.
WontLeave
JoinedPosts by WontLeave
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18
How did that MYSTERIOUS transition from Russell to Rutherford happen?
by Terry in"judge" josephh rutherford helped pastor russell draft his last will and testament.
as legal advisor this was fitting.
russell never stated that they were to only publish his writings.
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The only organization that God directs.
by man in black induring the decades in which i was a jw, so many times i heard comments about how the wtbts is the only organization that god is directing here on earth today.
in fac there was a popular story in the late 70's about how the us army once came to a district assembly to observe, and learn how to better organize large groups of people.
( i remember the speaker commenting on how many attendee's thought the tribulation was starting because the army was there.
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WontLeave
"Is God directing the Watchtower?"
This is a major subject of contention for me. You'll hear it stated from the platform, in Watchtower Study comments, in casual conversation with JWs that the Governing Body, and by extension (I can't get enough of that phrase, lately) the literature are inspired by Holy Spirit. I've even heard some long-time JWs - not some newbie who hasn't been properly trained - state in no uncertain terms they see the literature as being the modern equivalent to the Bible and equally important. Let's face it, they see the literature as "solid food". What's that make the Bible? milk?
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Being raciest, need clarity.
by free2beme ingrowing up a witness, and having black friends and and relatives.
i was kind of in the dark as to what being a raciest was really based on.
so as i get older and think about it more, i thought it might be an interesting question to discuss what you think makes a person raciest and how they base this thinking.. i am going to use the african american racism in this example, as i think that more then any other group.
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WontLeave
@Glander
Don't do it! It's a trap. Don't mention statistics. You'll be labeled a "racist". You'll be accused of getting them from the KKK website. Don't talk about IQ, illegitimacy, drop-out rate, prison population, inter-racial violent crime, welfare, or any of that stuff. None of it matters, because it's all Whitey's fault. You should know that by now, Cracker!
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When did the WT say that homosexual extramarital affairs were not grounds for divorce?
by doubtful ini've heard it said that the watchtower printed an official stance on what qualifies as "adultery" at one point in the 1970s??
they said that a woman was not free to divorce her husband if her husband had sex with another man or with an animal, as such sexual relations did not constitute "becoming one flesh"... apparently vaginal intercourse is the only means of fusing two human bodies together.... what watchtower is such a doctrine found in?
is it in the wt cd-rom?
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WontLeave
the whole principle is based on marital fidelity.
Actually, Biblical adultery is a married woman having sex with a man not her husband. The Society has taken it upon itself to gender-neutralize gender-specific scriptures.
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Being raciest, need clarity.
by free2beme ingrowing up a witness, and having black friends and and relatives.
i was kind of in the dark as to what being a raciest was really based on.
so as i get older and think about it more, i thought it might be an interesting question to discuss what you think makes a person raciest and how they base this thinking.. i am going to use the african american racism in this example, as i think that more then any other group.
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WontLeave
Anyone who answered this question would be crucified. Turn it around, start a new thread of why blacks hate whites so much and you'll get plenty of completely politically correct answers that won't be ridiculed. You've pretty much already set the stage with "what drives this insanity in our modern era?" inviting only negative responses, when you're claiming to invite reasons for it. Basically, you're fishing for people to agree with you. Are your beliefs so shallow you need everyone around you to agree?
p.s. Before you do, you might want to learn how to spell "racism" and "racist".
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WontLeave
Check your messages.
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9
Trading a real sense of LIFE and DEATH for the Watchtower metaphors
by Terry inthe saddest of all the sad things my eyes have beheld was this one sunny day on a grassy green knoll that led up to an outstretched oak tree beneath which was a tiny coffin with a little red balloon tied on, dizzily dancing in the gusts of summer wind.
the poignancy of that red balloon wrenched my heart with the ugly beauty of it all.
such a small coffin!
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WontLeave
I encountered a similar question from a Bible study once: Why do we all have to suffer for Adam's sin?
No, it's not fair. Likewise, what happened to Job wasn't fair. Neither he nor his family and servants had done anything do deserve what happened to them. But that's the whole point: Under Satan's regime, nothing is fair. Only under God's Kingdom will all be made equitable.
And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. - Isa 2:4
If we only have one shot, how frustrating and unthinkable is it for all the children born into crippling poverty, with horrible birth defects, with AIDS or other deadly diseases, into abuse which leaves them mentally and emotionally ruined, or just to parents who raise them with upbringings that will take decades to recover from, if at all. Many here feel the better part of their lives were taken from them by brainwashing and isolation from alternatives, or worse.
If this is "the real life", many people are screwed out of the gate and there's nothing they can do about it. Think about the population of the earth and contrast that with the population of truly modern societies. Even though China is industrialized, for example, there are so many people there, only a small fraction have been elevated by a flourishing economy. About - what? - 10% of the planet live in a country where making something of one's life is even a possibility? And out of that ~10%, if one is born into a family where education is scorned, work ethic is exchanged for entitlement, a lifestyle of squandering resources on appearances rather than true substance is promoted; that culture will probably take hold and ruin the rest of that one's life.
The saving grace we have, as imperfect, sinful people that Adam didn't, is forgiveness. Perfection can't be forgiven, because perfection doesn't fail to remain sinless but choose to sin. Satan can't be forgiven, neither can the fallen angels or the first couple. Nowhere is any remorse on their part indicated, either. When we fail, when we succumb to imperfect human failures, we can regret it, repent, and be forgiven.
Everybody found worthy of being the type of person God wants in his Paradise will have equal opportunity to enjoy life to the full. Anyone not found worthy, their lives were temporary anyway and "all is vanity and a striving after wind" (Ecc 1:14). This may sound harsh and JWs' (and many other fundie churches') idea of judgement is harsh. In the light of the true Judge, Christ, it's not bad at all.
The JWs are under the impression the elders hold the keys to Paradise and if they DF you, when Armageddon comes, you're screwed on their say-so. All based on their enforcing man-made rules and human interpretation of God's rules - What arrogance! This attitude alone will probably send many of them straight to Gehenna. The JW idea that only 7M (or less, if their hours aren't up) JWs are making it to the New World and 144k JWs are going to fill all the seats in Heaven is one of the most mind-numbingly idiotic teachings of all.
Keep in mind, the entire reason religion exists is to confuse people, and the entire reason for the churches is specifically to make God and the Bible look ridiculous. It plants seeds in our minds that taint our understanding, even when looking right at the Bible. It takes a massive personal effort to empty our cup before filling it with Bible truth. I am still finding areas of my understanding which, when close examination of Scripture is done, are bent toward a preconceived false idea. Every time I read the Bible, I find "Wait, did that just say what I thought it said?" verses that fly in the face of something I thought I knew.
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Were There/Are There A Number Of Gays At Bethel?
by minimus ini remember the "boy's club" mentality from many of the bethelites in the 70's and 80's.
it seemed there were a number of males who were "effeminate" back in the day.. i knew of one guy that was told by the bethel brass that he would "go places" at headquarters if he could learn to deepen his voice and tone down his gestures a bit (and he was told it wouldn't hurt if he ever married a fellow bethelite sister).
this man was extensively used at conventions, became less "gay looking" and got married.. so my question is, did you see effeminate men in bethel?
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WontLeave
The "It's a choice" crowd really tick me off. As a straight man, there is no possible way I could "choose" to have sex with a man. If a man finds other men attractive, obviously it's in his chemistry and not the result of a conscious coin-flip. I give uber props to any Christian with a predisposition toward homosexuality who 'pummel their bodies and lead them as slaves'. All these fundie church groups and even JWs who believe you just go to the elders about it and they'll throw some WT articles at you and "pray the gay away"; I just want to punch someone in the head for being so stupid and ignorant while assuming the positions of counselors and psychotherapists.
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The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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WontLeave
@godrulz
Actually, I understood the Father/Son relationship from reading the Bible, then did research to find which churches understood this simple Bible truth rather than inventing a non-existent Father-Son combo. I joined JWs because they understand this and many other things from the Bible accurately. The JW doctrine, for the most part, is their best quality. Their failing is mostly in their attitude, man-made rules, and elevation of their leadership to Christ-like positions.
You never did answer the simple question: When Jesus was baptized on earth, the Father was acknowledging him as his son from Heaven, and the Holy Spirit was sent by the Father to anoint the Son, where was God, since there is only one yet all three of these (in your mind) is God? Was God in Heaven, on Earth, or making the trip between?
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When did the WT say that homosexual extramarital affairs were not grounds for divorce?
by doubtful ini've heard it said that the watchtower printed an official stance on what qualifies as "adultery" at one point in the 1970s??
they said that a woman was not free to divorce her husband if her husband had sex with another man or with an animal, as such sexual relations did not constitute "becoming one flesh"... apparently vaginal intercourse is the only means of fusing two human bodies together.... what watchtower is such a doctrine found in?
is it in the wt cd-rom?
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WontLeave
The really interesting part is, at the same time, your spouse requesting oral sex was grounds for divorce. This is why I want no part of man-made rules.
@doubtful
Check http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk for some good quotes, many can still be found on the CD-ROM, for those JWs who want to believe everything brought to their attention are filthy lies from diseased, demonic minds.