WontLeave

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Posts by WontLeave

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  28

  Can you give specific examples of the WTBTS taking quotes out of context?

  by Chemical Emotions in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  not just from the bible, but from secular writers and others.

  or other similar mistakes/lies regarding quotes and stories and things like that.. .

  i have noticed a few, but i can't remember most of them... oops.

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  WontLeave

  The picture of a stake in the apendix of the reference Bible is taken from De Crucis Liber Primus, by Justus Lipsius

  The same book, however, depicts Jesus on a cross. The stake picture has nothing to do with Jesus.

  
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  9

  Come again -- this elder doesn't know what? And what is Shinola?

  by FatFreek 2005 in

  1. social
  2. humour

  a jw elder and his companion called at this home where an 8-year-old girl answered the door.

  the elder greeted the little girl with a question, "what do you think about god's promise to live forever in a paradise earth where your back yard would be populated with your very own friendly horses, cows, and deer.".

  "hmmmm" ... she paused and replied, "that's an interesting word picture that you create ... but let me ask you a question first.

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  WontLeave

  
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  14

  We never claimed to prophesy

  by Honesty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when a jw tells you that, show them this:.

  june 15, 1964 watchtower.

  page 365. parargraph 22. .

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  WontLeave

  I use this and other tasty quotes in my paper "Do Christians Have Human Leaders?" Personally, I like where they said "God is still speaking. But are we listening?"
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  18

  how do we exdubs deal with family still in?

  by bigmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would be interested in hearing how other ex's cope with family members--still stuck in.. .

  example--my 90 year old jw dad--been in 50+ years---continued close ties with me since i left 30+ years ago----yet he says he wont talk to his grandson--age 35 ( my son )--who was df 2 years back.

  my never jw (3rd) wife cant understand this.. .

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  WontLeave

  I've been shunning my JW family for years, even before I joined or lost interest in the religion. They thought after I joined, I'd be as thick as thieves (appropriate analogy) with them. JW members of my family are all sociopathic trash and I don't give them bonus points for being JWs or being related. Whenever they're trying to use me - or some other non-failure in the family - they pull the "blood is thicker than water" argument. Odd, that doesn't matter when they're stealing grandma's jewelry or emptying their minor children's bank accounts because they're too lazy to work. This is such a touchy subject with me and brings out extremely unChristian feelings. I try to avoid thinking about them, so I can keep a cool head.

  @punkofnice

  My not-quite-as-opposed wife is starting to notice that about her JW family. For people who talk about religion all the time, they never mention God, Jesus, or the Bible. Everything is meetings, literature, organization, conventions, service, etc. They jockey so hard for appearaces and positions in the group, but don't give a pile of dingo's kidneys about their relationship with God.

  I try to talk with JWs who come to my door (Mormons, too). I've noticed many times from my own experiences as a JW that Witnesses can endure no end of atheists insulting belief in God or questioning the very existence of Jesus. They don't bat an eyelash to someone degrading the Bible as a book of fairy tales. But let someone question their devotion to the "Governing Body" and suddenly they're running for the hills while spouting negative epithets.
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  6

  JW's and Amway

  by Mad Dawg in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just happened to have amway come to mind.

  i was involved in three different multi-level-marketing (mlm) scams: scamway, pre-paid legal, and 1st fitnesss.

  i don't remember many jw's in cramway, but there were loads of them in the second two scams.

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  WontLeave

  Of the JWs I've met, a portion of them that is vastly beyond the perportions of normal people are in MLM. Noni juice (snake oil scam), Herbalife (overpriced vitamins), World Book (back when encyclopedias mattered), Pre-Paid Legal (which is a joke), phone card pyramids, etc. These people aren't qualified or equipped to make money any other way, so they look for some get-rich-quick scheme. Stupid people are suckers and JWs are notorious for being stupid, ignorant, and desperately broke. Meanwhile they have these idealistic fantasies of how they'd "donate half to the Society and pioneer until Armageddon" if they struck it rich.

  On the rare occasions a JW actually does become financially successful, the last thing on their minds is pioneering. Suddenly they discover the feeling of fulfillment by achieving. This is far better than the fake achievement of getting a pat on the back from losers in cheap suits, fake titles, positions of responsibility and mock authority, big numbers on a time sheet turned in to people you'll never meet, etc. Seeing a tangible result of your work quickly pushes the silly pipe dreams out of the way and the bar gets raised of what makes us happy and fulfilled.
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  79

  A brother at my wife's congregation wants to study the Bible Teach book...

  by garyneal in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ... he apparently has wanted to do so for a while now.

  i agreed to meet with him this tuesday night at 6:00 p.m. edt.

  he asked me to pick the chapter where i wanted to start.. hmmmmm... where shall i start?

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  WontLeave

  Depending on how brainwashed he is, nothing will matter to him. I offered to show my MIL how JWs hold the Memorial on the wrong day, using only scriptures. She said she didn't want to see them. She rejected the Bible, in favor of Watchtower dogma, outright. My wife was shocked, because she's been having a hard time accepting what I've been trying to explain to her about how brainwashed JWs are. I've been showing her the psychology behind the indoctrination techniques and explained to her exactly what will happen when they encounter certain stimuli. Because their beliefs are purely emotional and not intellectual, once their reactions are forecasted and noticed, they're astounding in their insanity. You could tell your wife exactly what the guy's reaction will be when you bring up certain facts. Show her you know this will happen, because when people have been mind controlled, this is the result. You can demonstrate the mind control by pressing certain buttons, which will bring certain predictable results.
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  34

  You should be able to tell someone in the hall is a pedophile because they do not say prayers.

  by life is to short in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was talking with flipper on the phone the other day and i mentioned that the cobe formally the po told me that.

  i have been told so many stupid things in this religion when it comes to pedophiles that i never truly thought about it before and i just said it to flipper in my conversation.

  that is the stupidest thing i have heard.. so i thought i would do a thread about it.

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  WontLeave

  Hey, I can't say prayers, because I'm "marked". I also am not allowed to meet for service unless there's an elder there, because I can't be trusted to toe the Watchtower line. That's called "special shepherding". The elders were at a loss as to what to do about me, so the branch told them to treat me like a sex criminal until I get my idolatry in gear. I already told them I don't appreciate being treated like a pedophile or rapist, just because I refuse to accept the Watchtower as the new and improved Bible. They were quite surprised that I knew what "special shepherding" was and when it was used; even more so when I explained to them their new elders' book talks about it. Since I'd gotten a PDF before they'd gotten their copy, they were extremely upset and wanted to know where I got it. I told them all that is done in darkness will be brought to light.
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  14

  The Bible Character Who Said, "Wait on Jehovah"

  by metatron in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  once upon a time, the bible tells us, there was an authority figure in ancient israel.

  he observed the corruption, the decay, the wrongdoing and the nepotism and he wagged his finger vigorously !.

  instead of taking action, he warned, 'you just wait until jehovah takes care of you !

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  WontLeave

  Psa 37:7 is what they're usually referring to. Problem is, when they say "Wait on Jehovah", they mean "Wait on us." Since they believe they're prophets, whatever they say is "Jehovah speaking", through their magazines. Even when the Bible has already given us God's take and opinion on a matter, they still say "Wait on Jehovah", if we see they've got it wrong (again).
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  21

  A Point Djeggnog Missed...

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a while back djeggnog said to me.... "evidently you want the readers of your book to believe what jehovah's witnesses believe[d] (down till 1919) to be a matter of embracing the beliefs of these dead men (russell and rutherford).

  but jehovah's witnesses embrace[d] the teachings of jesus christ, our living lord.".

  "captives of a concept" presents 48 examples where jehovah's witnesses (bible students) did in fact embrace the beliefs of the now dead men russell and rutherford.

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  WontLeave

  Cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable. One way to alleviate it is for everybody around you to believe the same thing. This social reassurance of the impossible things you believe relieves much of the discomfort. This is why people in cults feel such a need to exclusively associate with members of the cult and convert everyone they meet. Not only that, but constantly trying to convert is an unconscious method of reciting the impossible belief until - like a word said over and over - it begins to lose its real meaning and just becomes rote. Rather than having to be dealt with on an intellectual level, it becomes like a nursery rhyme that we know the words to and can sing, but we have never stopped to think about what the words actually mean. Some are pretty horrible, when you examine what's being said.

  I did notice he quit arguing with me about Nisan 14 vs. Nisan 15. The Society just throws it out there with a few blurbs from minority theorists. The fact that it's easily demonstrated that JWs are incorrect made him very uncomfortable talking about it, once he realized the cause was clearly lost and the Society is obviously wrong. The 607/587 thing is much murkier. The Society has fought tooth-and-nail for this, has turned over every rock for any nutter's parallel opinion, and flooded the literature with enough words to make it virtually impossible to tear down the arguments of anyone who wants the Society to be right about it.

  Once someone puts the "teacher" hat on, it's very difficult to reason with them. I've tried it with JWs and Mormons who come to my door, fundies, JW family and acquaintances (there are no real JW friends), etc. It doesn't work, because you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Someone has to want to know the truth in order for the truth to be given to them. It takes a lot of will power to admit you're wrong and certain types of people would rather die than change their minds. The more you fight with them and back them into a corner, the more tightly they cling to their beliefs.

  The psychological reasons for clinging to lies are as strong or stronger than clinging to them for money or power. It's my experience that many (or most) JWs have some kind of mental issue. Some have low self-esteem and crave the feeling of "success" and the false love and praise for toeing the cult line. Others are sociopaths who crave the man-made positions of authority and/or the superiority of believing they're in a tiny minority who will watch everybody else die at the hand of God for not listening to them.

  Once you realize most JWs don't have rational reasons for adhering to the JW doctrines, it's easier to let go of an argument. It's impossible to reason with someone who is being unreasonable. Their belief is on a purely emotional level, so the only thing that will jar them loose of their death-grip on the group is an emotional event. Most ex-JWs are made by something traumatic happening to them; not a realization through study that "The Truth"™ isn't very truthful, at times. You just have to wait until they're thirsty, then lead them to the water. Eggie is obviously not stupid, but all that does is make him better at making intelligent arguments for beliefs he clings to for stupid, irrational, or possibly wicked reasons.
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  6

  Hmmmm....interesting.

  by Tralfamadorian in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  does anyone else see the implied jesus reference in this video?

  [metallica, the unforgiven].

  2:20 minutes in, up to about 3:00 minutes.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myumpkfyd6g.

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  WontLeave

  Actually, I believe the lyrics have to do with James Hetfield (lead singer) being raised in the Christian Scientist cult. His parents brainwashed and forced him from childhood to accept their beliefs. I'm sure when he left, they gave him a lot of guff, just like rejecting JW dogma. Any resistance as a child was probably met with threats, punishment, violence, screaming, etc., just like for a JW kid.

  The second verse, I take to mean someone raised being lied to and lives according to those lies, only to realize too late that their whole life has been wasted; so, he goes through the motions because there's no point in changing this late in the game. The "you labeled me, I label you" part at the end really hits home when "apostate" and "the borg" are the perception of each side.

  Metallica - Unforgiven

  New blood joins this earth
  And quickly he's subdued
  Through constant pained disgrace
  The young boy learns their rules
  With time the child draws in
  This whipping boy done wrong
  Deprived of all his thoughts
  The young man struggles on and on he's known
  A vow unto his own
  That never from this day
  His will they'll take away
  
  Chorus:
  
  What I've felt
  What I've known
  Never shined through in what I've shown
  Never be
  Never see
  Won't see what might have been
  What I've felt
  What I've known
  Never shined through in what I've shown
  Never free
  Never me
  So I dub thee unforgiven
  
  They dedicate their lives
  To running all of his
  He tries to please them all
  This bitter man he is
  Throughout his life the same
  He's battled constantly
  This fight he cannot win
  A tired man they see no longer cares
  The old man then prepares
  To die regretfully
  That old man here is me
  
  Never Free
  Never Me
  So I dub thee unforgiven
  You labeled me
  I'll label you
  So I dub thee unforgiven